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I agree with what you're saying in respect to the suburbs offering an alternative to the city, but if you introduce the scenerio of very expensive fuel to auto-dependent suburbs, they seem less sustainable. I'm not saying every suburb is completely auto dependent, all I'm saying is that it's a scenerio you have to consider when debating "sustainability."
I agree with the fuel issue. That is someting that can affect the sustainability of the suburbs, but just because the fuel issue exist doesn't mean the suburbs will go away. Cities have public schools, crime, racism in some cities, horrible city government, poverty, etc and they are still there. My point is, there will be people who will always choose the suburbs even if gas prices rise. Its a simply matter of what you are willing to deal with.
I agree with the fuel issue. That is someting that can affect the sustainability of the suburbs, but just because the fuel issue exist doesn't mean the suburbs will go away. Cities have public schools, crime, racism in some cities, horrible city government, poverty, etc and they are still there. My point is, there will be people who will always choose the suburbs even if gas prices rise. Its a simply matter of what you are willing to deal with.
So, if there was no more gas, would people still live in the suburbs? Could people sustain their current lives in the suburbs without oil? If the price of gas shot up tomorrow to $10 a gallon, who would be able to sustain their lifestyle the best: Suburban or Urban residents?
I agree with the fuel issue. That is someting that can affect the sustainability of the suburbs, but just because the fuel issue exist doesn't mean the suburbs will go away. .
I didn't say they would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55
Cities have public schools, crime, racism in some cities, horrible city government, poverty, etc and they are still there. .
You are aware that these problems acutally do exist in suburbs too, right? It's not so black and white (pun intended). I know you are aware, just avoid blanket statements like this OK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55
My point is, there will be people who will always choose the suburbs even if gas prices rise. Its a simply matter of what you are willing to deal with.
If the cost of anything rises, a certain number of people will no longer be able to afford that thing, whatever it may be.
People have to live somewhere, so they will live where they can afford, whether not they are "willing to deal with it." More people buying into cities > re-population of blighted area > the return of a middle class > reduction of the problems you seem to feel are either unsolvable or permament.
I'm not sure how old you are but Philadelphia is a heck of a lot better now than it was at any point of my lifetime. In some areas that isn't saying much but you'd have to be blind to miss how much progress Philly has made in the last 30 years.
So, if there was no more gas, would people still live in the suburbs? Could people sustain their current lives in the suburbs without oil? If the price of gas shot up tomorrow to $10 a gallon, who would be able to sustain their lifestyle the best: Suburban or Urban residents?
If there was no oil, people would not be able to live in the suburbs. When that happens, we'll have that debate. Right now there is oil, so the suburbs will be sustainable.
You are aware that these problems acutally do exist in suburbs too, right? It's not so black and white (pun intended). I know you are aware, just avoid blanket statements like this OK?
If the cost of anything rises, a certain number of people will no longer be able to afford that thing, whatever it may be.
People have to live somewhere, so they will live where they can afford, whether not they are "willing to deal with it." More people buying into cities > re-population of blighted area > the return of a middle class > reduction of the problems you seem to feel are either unsolvable or permament.
I'm not sure how old you are but Philadelphia is a heck of a lot better now than it was at any point of my lifetime. In some areas that isn't saying much but you'd have to be blind to miss how much progress Philly has made in the last 30 years.
1. I'm not making blanket statements, but my point was the suburbs has the fuel issue, and the city has their issues. I know that suburbs have bad public schools, crime, etc. They both are still around, and will always be around
2. I'm well aware that people will live where they can afford, and there will always be people who can afford the suburbs.
I don't know. That would be a subject for a PhD thesis. I do not accept that it is inherently obvious that a city is more sustainable, however.
Imagination! I have given you full reign over this scenario, and you give me some cop out that says it's just too much to even give the old "college try" and convince me that the lifestyle and environment that YOU PERSONALLY LIVE would be sustainable for everyone who currently lives in a city.
But it does seem like you are insinuating that suburban lifestyles cannot be sustainable for the citizens of the United States. If it was sustainable, I would think that people would be jumping all over the opportunity to show and explain how if everyone lived on a quarter acre lot of land with plenty of roads connecting everything, how that it would be more sustainable than living in a city.
But, alas, no one is saying everyone can live in a house with a yard like theirs.
If there was no oil, people would not be able to live in the suburbs. When that happens, we'll have that debate. Right now there is oil, so the suburbs will be sustainable.
My whole point has been, neither the city or the suburbs are more sustainable. They both will exist.
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