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@bbd: might prefer walking in an urbanist area rather than on a mixed use path by a busy highway. I said if I were going out for a walk for pleasure, I would not want to walk on that particular path, either. However, that path makes it possible to walk along that busy highway, which may be the way you need to go to get from Point A to Point B.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 12-27-2011 at 09:48 AM..
@bbd: might prefer walking in an urbanist area rather than on a mixed use path by a busy highway. I said if I were going out for a walk for pleasure, I would not want to walk on that particular path, either. However, that path makes it possible to walk along that busy highway, which may be the way you need to go to get from Point A to Point B.
yes, thats why i said
"That said, the multiuse paths on parkways are better than some of the poor sidewalk facilities on arterials in some sections, and can provide important continuity between other good walking/cycling sections."
Wow, how cool that you live in such a Mayberry-ish section of your city. The city neighborhoods that I lived in weren't quite like that. In the cities I lived in, when you walked down the street you would never just call out "Hi, how ya doin'" to complete strangers. (Unless you had a little too much to drink, of course ).
In my city neighborhood we behaved around strangers the same way people do in elevators--you look straight ahead, act polite if there's a reason to talk, but otherwise keep to yourself and mind your own business.
But, I can believe there might be Mayberry-ish streets in a city. After all, my street out here in the burbs is like that. People talk to you while you wait in line at the grocery store and wave at complete strangers as they pass by--it kind of freaked me out when I first moved here. I wondered if they knew me, but after awhile I found out it's just the local custom. You wave at everyone who passes and you don't even think about it. I'm glad to hear that people do that in some city neighborhoods, too. No wonder you love your neighborhood so much.
"Mayberry-ish" my foot. Ever watch Seinfeld? It's a sitcom based in New York City, the biggest city in the United States, and much of the action is based on people randomly encountering people they know on the street. Now, why do people constantly run into people they know on the street? Because it's an interesting street with lots of people on it, and they encounter each other. And sure, it's a fictional show, but that sort of random interaction is part and parcel of city life. My favorite anecdote is from a friend who was visiting New York, sitting at a sidewalk cafe and talking to a local friend about a mutual acquaintance who lived in Brazil. While having lunch, the acquaintance walked by! Sure, it's "random chance"--but cities where people walk have better odds of such encounters. Sure, lots of New Yorkers walk by each other without even making eye contact--until they bump into someone they know, in which case they generally say hi.
My neighbors, for the most part, aren't strangers. We all live in the same neighborhood, and there are a lot of long-time renters. If you see the same people walking in and out of their houses over the course of years, you start to recognize them. It's a behavior quite common in walkable places, from Mayberry to Manhattan. It does go against the grain of what many people assume cities are like, but there are a lot of false myths about cities. Bursting those myths sometimes makes people uncomfortable.
My parents got fed up with our block in Brooklyn, cause it was TOO mayberrish - folks too into other peoples business. Not enough anonymity.
Ive never lived in another urban area that was that intense, but in baltimore I lived in a relatively mayberrish town house neighborhood - Bolton Hill. How many people you got to know was up to you - it had two active nabe associations, two active political clubs, several community oriented churchs, a huge annual neighborhood festival that lots of folks volunteered in, etc, etc.
Later I lived in the Canton area on the waterfront. We tended NOT to know folks in the neighborhood outside our building, but we did get to know a fair sampling of folks in the building, including most of the folks on our hallway.
My neighbors, for the most part, aren't strangers. We all live in the same neighborhood, and there are a lot of long-time renters. If you see the same people walking in and out of their houses over the course of years, you start to recognize them. It's a behavior quite common in walkable places, from Mayberry to Manhattan. It does go against the grain of what many people assume cities are like, but there are a lot of false myths about cities. Bursting those myths sometimes makes people uncomfortable.
That's wonderful, and I'm glad to hear you live in a neighborhood like that. The world needs more places like that and it's great to hear they exist.
The city neighborhoods I lived in weren't like that, but perhaps I lived in a more transitional area.
I didn't know anyone else who lived in my apartment building in DC. When I first moved in I met the next door neighbor, but that girl moved out the next month and I never met the people who moved in after her. There were people I recognized, but nobody ever stopped to talk and so neither did I. When we finally moved out I doubt anyone realized it. There was a bad snow storm one year and people socialized a little when we were all out shovelling--but after that we went back to being strangers. I did sometimes see people I knew on the street (especially if you walked by the coffee shop) but I only said hello to people I already knew, and strangers never stopped to talk to me.
Of course, that was a while back, maybe times have changed.
My image of city neighborhoods (outside of center city nabes) years ago, especially the old white ethnic working class neighborhoods is a small town in a big city — everyone knows each other, and it's a bit clannish and insular. Maybe a bit like BBD's description.
@Caladium
where were photos #2, #3? As I said they looked like Massachusetts. Am I right? Or was it somewhere in Virginia?
The coffee shops and artisanal bread type places tend to have comparative advantage for the traditional urbanist street places versus say, furniture stores, even in areas that are mostly auto focused. Because you dont need a close parking space or a big loading dock for your latte. So that adds to the stereoptype.
Yea, walking around my town, I'm amazed how many coffee and overpriced sandwich shops can survive in one town. I'm told years ago, there were more normal stores. Not that aren't today but the proportion as changed.
It seems inevitable every where car ownership is the norm that walkable commercial districts attract a certain type of business more.
#2 and #3 are in Winchester, VA , a small historic town that's now part of the farthest fringes of suburbia here. A fairly high percentage of residents there commute to jobs in the DC metro area, but I think of Winchester as more of a country town with some suburbanish elements.
FWIW I didn't choose Winchester for any particular reason. It was simply the first set of photos I came across that happened to show the sort of sidewalks I wanted to discuss.
That's wonderful, and I'm glad to hear you live in a neighborhood like that. The world needs more places like that and it's great to hear they exist.
The city neighborhoods I lived in weren't like that, but perhaps I lived in a more transitional area.
I didn't know anyone else who lived in my apartment building in DC. When I first moved in I met the next door neighbor, but that girl moved out the next month and I never met the people who moved in after her. There were people I recognized, but nobody ever stopped to talk and so neither did I. When we finally moved out I doubt anyone realized it. There was a bad snow storm one year and people socialized a little when we were all out shovelling--but after that we went back to being strangers. I did sometimes see people I knew on the street (especially if you walked by the coffee shop) but I only said hello to people I already knew, and strangers never stopped to talk to me.
Of course, that was a while back, maybe times have changed.
I think it varies with lots of different factors. leaving aside the old ethnic areas like where I grew up and just looking at places like the areas in baltimore i lived in, and other upper middle class or yuppie urban places - townhouses tend to have more of that mayberryish feel than larger apt buildings I think - coops perhaps more than condos, which have more than rentals - a place like DC with lots of turnover, maybe less, but that could also vary by neighborhood - I think a townhouse area where a lot of the inhabitants are the original "pioneers" who actually did rehab themselves, has more of that than when they are replaced by folks who buy the houses after the area is established. And some areas just have a very instense local neighborhood culture - Bolton Hill was really kind of unique compared to more typical yuppie nabes in baltimore, as far as I could tell. With buildings it can vary with the layout and facilities of the building. This variance is true just as it is for suburban SFH areas - some have more or less neighborhood feel based on many factors.
My image of city neighborhoods (outside of center city nabes) years ago, especially the old white ethnic working class neighborhoods is a small town in a big city — everyone knows each other, and it's a bit clannish and insular. Maybe a bit like BBD's description.
No AC, lots of retirees and SAHMs so whenever the weather was halfway decent, there were people sitting on lawn chairs on the sidewalk in front of our building, shmoozing. And watching who went in and out, and when. On the one hand I could play out there without my parents having to supervise from an early age. OTOH once when my mom stayed home from work and one of the watchers asked her later what was up, she felt VERY, er, lacking in privacy.
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