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Old 01-08-2012, 12:52 PM
 
7,598 posts, read 8,492,064 times
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In such a system, HSR would be the backbone and the intracity transit system would be the appendages. Why do you insist that we have fully functioning appendages before the backbone of the system? It seems like an impossible task.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:57 PM
 
236 posts, read 254,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Correct on intercity. And how many freeways that aren't carrying heavy amounts of intracity traffic are 8+ lanes? Not many. HSR loses again. There's all but no point to HSR without an existing intracity transit system that does not exist and cannot exist in 90% of America with our current land use.
Okay but again when gas goes to $5 or higher/gallon? Or when these highways require extensive expansion and rebuilding due to their age and small size? Or when the population of the NEC increases and congestion becomes a major problem? Seriously, what is with the close mindedness. It's a disease that's spreading fast.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:11 PM
 
6,494 posts, read 5,367,116 times
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Originally Posted by frischee112 View Post
And when gas goes to $5 or higher/gallon?
People will pay it. Amtrak's prices will go up too.

Quote:
Or when these highways require extensive expansion and rebuilding due to their age and small size?
The Pennsylvania Turnpike has been under construction for decades now, and the Schuylkill Expressway (from Philadelphia to the Turnpike) has been resurfaced several times. It's not like they built them back in the 1930s and ignored them until now. The Expressway is way over capacity but that's mainly a problem for rush hour trips, not intercity trips. Just don't leave Philly during the PM rush and you're fine.

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Or when the population of the NEC increases and congestion becomes a major problem? Seriously, what is with the close mindedness. It's a disease that's spreading fast.
It's not "close mindedness" to reject your particular solution. It's critical thinking.

High speed rail doesn't solve congestion, because most congestion is within a metro area, not between them. It can't beat highways door-to-door. It's much less flexible in terms of time and destination than highways. It loses speed with every station it serves. It's very expensive to build, maintain, and operate. Note that highway "operation" costs (e.g. toll collectors and police) are much lower than for rail and the highway rolling stock is bought and maintained by the individual users. Further the grade and curve requirements for a high speed rail line are much more stringent than for highways.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:14 PM
 
236 posts, read 254,863 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
People will pay it. Amtrak's prices will go up too.



The Pennsylvania Turnpike has been under construction for decades now, and the Schuylkill Expressway (from Philadelphia to the Turnpike) has been resurfaced several times. It's not like they built them back in the 1930s and ignored them until now. The Expressway is way over capacity but that's mainly a problem for rush hour trips, not intercity trips. Just don't leave Philly during the PM rush and you're fine.



It's not "close mindedness" to reject your particular solution. It's critical thinking.

High speed rail doesn't solve congestion, because most congestion is within a metro area, not between them. It can't beat highways door-to-door. It's much less flexible in terms of time and destination than highways. It loses speed with every station it serves. It's very expensive to build, maintain, and operate. Note that highway "operation" costs (e.g. toll collectors and police) are much lower than for rail and the highway rolling stock is bought and maintained by the individual users. Further the grade and curve requirements for a high speed rail line are much more stringent than for highways.
I give up. You just can't argue with ignorance.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
8,344 posts, read 5,438,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frischee112 View Post
Okay but again when gas goes to $5 or higher/gallon? Or when these highways require extensive expansion and rebuilding due to their age and small size? Or when the population of the NEC increases and congestion becomes a major problem? Seriously, what is with the close mindedness. It's a disease that's spreading fast.
At $3.50 and 25 mpg and 15,000 miles a year cost = $2,100
At $5 and 15,000 miles a year w/ cost $2,100; mpg = 35.
Get a more efficient car, drive less, or pay more. Simple. Raise the gas tax $1 gallon to pay for the needed repairs and expansions.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
8,344 posts, read 5,438,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frischee112 View Post
I give up. You just can't argue with ignorance.
Finally, he speaks some truth.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Miami/ Washington DC
4,719 posts, read 5,403,653 times
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Spend the money on urban city transit. The airlines or private investments or Amtrak expansion can take care of the rest.nthe us is not as dense and small like Europe. It works with Bo's-wash but that's about it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
12,914 posts, read 13,315,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frischee112 View Post
And when gas goes to $5 or higher/gallon? Or when these highways require extensive expansion and rebuilding due to their age and small size? Or when the population of the NEC increases and congestion becomes a major problem? Seriously, what is with the close mindedness. It's a disease that's spreading fast.
The more expensive gasoline becomes, the less people will drive. They will also replace larger less efficient vehicles over time with smaller more efficient ones. Population growth will counter that, but demand for road infrastructure may become more of a maintenance issue than expansion over time.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:48 PM
 
236 posts, read 254,863 times
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Originally Posted by FlyMIA View Post
Spend the money on urban city transit. The airlines or private investments or Amtrak expansion can take care of the rest.nthe us is not as dense and small like Europe. It works with Bo's-wash but that's about it.
Distance from Paris to Marseille: 480 mi. 7.5 hr driving time
-TGV travel time: 3hrs 20 minutes

Distance from Berlin to Munich: 370 mi. 5.75 hr driving time
-ICE travel time: 6hrs

Distance from Moscow to St Petersburg: 460 mi. 10 hr driving time
-Moscow- St. Peters. RR: 4hrs

London to Paris: 285 mi. 5.5 hr driving time
-Eurostar: 2hrs 20 minutes

Beijing to Shanghai: 785 mi. 15 hr driving time
-Beijing-Shanghai 5hrs 20 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chicago to Detroit: 283 mi. 5 hr driving time

LA to San Diego: 120 mi. 2 hr driving time

Albany to NYC: 154 mi. 3 hr driving time

Orlando to Tampa: 84 mi. 1.5 hr driving time

Seattle to Portland: 174 mi. 3 hr driving time

Austin to Houston: 162 mi. 3 hr driving time

Your "the US isnt dense enough" argument is flawed. Please stop using it. These travel times are without traffic, which we all know is almost unrealistic. Short flights are horrible for the environment causing noise and sound pollution along with smog and CO2 emissions.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:01 PM
 
Location: The City
19,350 posts, read 16,672,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frischee112 View Post
Distance from Paris to Marseille: 480 mi. 7.5 hr driving time
-TGV travel time: 3hrs 20 minutes

Distance from Berlin to Munich: 370 mi. 5.75 hr driving time
-ICE travel time: 6hrs

Distance from Moscow to St Petersburg: 460 mi. 10 hr driving time
-Moscow- St. Peters. RR: 4hrs

London to Paris: 285 mi. 5.5 hr driving time
-Eurostar: 2hrs 20 minutes

Beijing to Shanghai: 785 mi. 15 hr driving time
-Beijing-Shanghai 5hrs 20 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chicago to Detroit: 283 mi. 5 hr driving time

LA to San Diego: 120 mi. 2 hr driving time

Albany to NYC: 154 mi. 3 hr driving time

Orlando to Tampa: 84 mi. 1.5 hr driving time

Seattle to Portland: 174 mi. 3 hr driving time

Austin to Houston: 162 mi. 3 hr driving time

Your "the US isnt dense enough" argument is flawed. Please stop using it. These travel times are without traffic, which we all know is almost unrealistic. Short flights are horrible for the environment causing noise and sound pollution along with smog and CO2 emissions.
To be fair all the highlighted cities might equal the population of singular cities in the upper part of your post. While point taken with the miles etc. Most of these you posted are not even large cities. For this to work the places have to some form of proximity and also mass. Austin and Abany dont have the mass and are not large cities by any measure
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