Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Nope. Never tried to give out my ethnicity on the forum, though maybe one of my posts gave a hint of that for some reason. (Actually, I might have said so a long time ago, can't remember)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
But everyone here, well, many anyway, were quick to put their own spin on what I wrote, and obviously didn't bother to read it for comprehension.
I sure as hell did not label all non car-owners as freeloaders. I challenge you to find one post where I said that. I was giving a freaking example. I am tired of the hostility on this forum recently.
Nope. I read it for comprehension and it read like you did. After reading later posts, I got you had something else in mind. It read as describing my own personal experiences (at times, traveling with friends who don't own cars and being the driver to going somewhere outdoors or the reverse when I didn't own a car).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Why do non-car owners need to get rides from owners? To leave the city! To go skiing, hiking, all the things the Colorado mountains have to offer. There are plenty of threads about this on the Colorado forums. Lots of freeloaders among the carless. Of course, you would know that this NEVER happens because you visit the Colorado forums all the time and are totally up to date on what is being discussed there, NOT!
As to being hostile, hostile posts provoke hostile responses, uncivil tones get worse. Angry tones make debate worse. Generalizations about certain groups annoy others. So does name-calling and at this point I'm not going back through to edit it. We've discussing other posters rather than the subject.
This link I'm about to post is a little lengthy, but you could read a little bit of it to get the gist of it. It talks about the problems in my state, lack of walkable vibrant cities etc.
At one point five years ago, the trend in my state was over half of college graduates would leave as soon as they got the degree, I believe things will get much better, however, I can't sit here and wait for it.
That's the way it was in the Pittsburgh area 25 years ago or so. It has taken a long time for their economy to recover. Many of my high school classmates moved away. People have to do what works for them.
My point is that the car share programs are ideal for growing urban neighborhoods like LoDo or similar neighborhoods in other cities, neighborhoods that are urban and that seem to be attracting large numbers of people who do not -- for whatever reason -- own cars. Even in Colorado, people can survive and thrive without cars, and I think it's nice that residents of Denver have at least one neighborhood options that appeals to those who are looking for a more urban lifestyle. Given how many options people have if they want to live an autocentric life, I don't see the problem with having at least a few locations where the needs of cars come second to the needs of people. And since all of those neighborhoods also have some options for off-street parking (including buildings that come with parking spaces), even those who own a car can still enjoy those locations.
I think options and choices are wonderful. I think most people do. Kudos to Denver for helping to provide another option for the residents of Colorado. And to the car-share programs for providing yet more options for people when it comes to their transportation needs. And yes, I realize that car-sharing (or living without a car) would not work or be of interest to you, or to plenty of other people. That's perfectly fine. But living without a car is an option for others, and it's nice to have urban neighborhoods that embrace that option. Not only is it nice for current residents, it's also nice for companies trying to recruit new hires (part of the reason why in many cities, businesses are very involved in some of these downtown renewal/improvement efforts; it makes them more attractive to some of their potential employees who do highly value interesting urban living.) It's not as though those who want easy driving and parking or a more suburban lifestyle don't have plenty of other good choices out there.
Last edited by nei; 12-24-2012 at 10:56 AM..
Reason: removing back and forth bickering
Neither was parking requirements. Conversation tends to change subjects. We've left the original topic of the thread a long time ago.
There's little I can do other than move posts and create a new thread or close this thread.
I hope the thread doesn't get shut down.
But I do want to add something to the discussion that does fall in line with the title of the thread (misconceptions).
I think there is a generational difference between outlooks in walkability and public transportation.
It *seems* that people from a certain age group equate walking to get somewhere and taking public transit to get somewhere as something that is "bad". I think that may stem from the idea that was once perpetuated ad nauseum was that the car is the way to get around. If you don't own a car then you just aren't "with it". My phrasing may be not to your liking, but I ask that you please just look at the sentiment behind it.
People of my generation are going to shape the world for the next 50-60 years. I grew up in analog AND digital. I am plenty familiar with the old, and I continue to age in the new. I am a millennial. We (I) are the link, the bond, the glue, that holds the past to the present and the future. People born 15-20 years after me will never live in a world that was once familiar to everyone living in America that was also relatively slow to change. That can't be said about any generation up to the "millennial".
So with that in mind, we (millennials) are coming into positions of power and we realize that things changes rapidly, and believe it or not, resources are not infinite.
There is less oil in the Earth today than there was yesterday. Less than there was a year ago. Even less than 10 years ago. Less than 50 years ago, and so on, and so on. We, generally speaking, tend to see using cars to get around as a luxury, or an added plus. Another option in a country/economy that is supposed to provide consumers with options. The dwindling supply of oil helps to keep us looking for places that are "walkable" and has "good transit".
There is no stigma in walking or taking transit with millennials, generally speaking. People older than us *seemingly* believe that walking or taking transit to get somewhere is "beneath" their salary, or job title, or whatever.
It seems to me that millennials want options on how to get around, and it *seems* to me that people older than us only want the option that solidifies/reaffirms their status in the "American Dream".
Hi Millennial -- I enjoyed reading your viewpoint. Rest assured, there are people in all generations who believe in the philosophy of living within their means and preserving the natural resources on earth and in the air. I am, however, mildly surprised that you have not been able to get acquainted with others who do share your viewpoints on transportation. I am sure I am old enough to be your mother. My own father, who would have been 96 if still living, always made sure he resided close to public transportation in order to commute back and forth to work. My mother, who is now 93, and married at about 31, after having completed her education and working for a number of years, also took public transit to work. In fact, back when she was a young working woman, not once, but twice, she had a man expose himself on the Chicago "EL". Mom is 93 now. She still laughs about it. It is not like they stopped the train and called the police. Life went on. She was a busy career lady. My husband and I will be married 35 years. During that time we have always made sure we rented or bought homes near public transport. I take the bus to and from work now, and I am a college graduate. We also carefully studied not only the bus routes, but frequency of service and transfer options available on these lines, as well as making sure our home was in a "walkable" location before we purchased it. So, Millennial, just get to know some of us older citizens. Living near good public transit is not a new idea, and it is not an idea that has just recently come on board. It was especially alive and strong in the days of the streetcar suburbs and I, too, truely hope that public transportation and mixed-use housing comes back full circle. Public transit is going strong where I live [Phoenix, AZ] - busses are packed during rush hours and I see passengers ranging in age from a couple of months to about 80. But, life is too short to go around and put down whole "groups" of people; just get to know people in that group. You will find we have a LOT more in common than you realize. Have a nice day!
People of my generation are going to shape the world for the next 50-60 years. I grew up in analog AND digital. I am plenty familiar with the old, and I continue to age in the new. I am a millennial. We (I) are the link, the bond, the glue, that holds the past to the present and the future. People born 15-20 years after me will never live in a world that was once familiar to everyone living in America that was also relatively slow to change. That can't be said about any generation up to the "millennial".
Hello, Generation X here. Remember us? The boomers derided as as slackers with short attention spans who did nothing but play video games all day -- oddly, some of the same features they praised millennials for. We also grew up with the analog and the digital. We were also a link between the past and the future -- EVERY generation is, from the second to the second to last. Also, we haven't gone away.
Quote:
So with that in mind, we (millennials) are coming into positions of power and we realize that things changes rapidly, and believe it or not, resources are not infinite.
Yeah. We heard the same thing. We're running out of oil, running out of natural gas, running out of fresh water, running out of non-dairy whipped topping. It was all supposed to be gone by now. And yet here we are. But we were a cynical bunch, a virtue apparently not shared by millennials, and never really believed it.
Yeah. We heard the same thing. We're running out of oil, running out of natural gas, running out of fresh water, running out of non-dairy whipped topping. It was all supposed to be gone by now. And yet here we are. But we were a cynical bunch, a virtue apparently not shared by millennials, and never really believed it.
To quote a boomer hero, Jackson Browne, "Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet." The oil that's being drilled now is more difficult to extract, more environmentally damaging (shale is a horrorshow), more accident prone. It's more expensive for these reasons and because China and India seem determined to go through the joys of auto dependence (though the Chinese are definitely having second thoughts). The days of cheap gas are already gone forever and even the supply of difficult oil is going to run out. The society can either prepare or just pretend it won't happen until we have start doing things that are drastic.
But I do want to add something to the discussion that does fall in line with the title of the thread (misconceptions).
I think there is a generational difference between outlooks in walkability and public transportation.
It *seems* that people from a certain age group equate walking to get somewhere and taking public transit to get somewhere as something that is "bad". I think that may stem from the idea that was once perpetuated ad nauseum was that the car is the way to get around. If you don't own a car then you just aren't "with it". My phrasing may be not to your liking, but I ask that you please just look at the sentiment behind it.
People of my generation are going to shape the world for the next 50-60 years. I grew up in analog AND digital. I am plenty familiar with the old, and I continue to age in the new. I am a millennial. We (I) are the link, the bond, the glue, that holds the past to the present and the future. People born 15-20 years after me will never live in a world that was once familiar to everyone living in America that was also relatively slow to change. That can't be said about any generation up to the "millennial".
So with that in mind, we (millennials) are coming into positions of power and we realize that things changes rapidly, and believe it or not, resources are not infinite.
There is less oil in the Earth today than there was yesterday. Less than there was a year ago. Even less than 10 years ago. Less than 50 years ago, and so on, and so on. We, generally speaking, tend to see using cars to get around as a luxury, or an added plus. Another option in a country/economy that is supposed to provide consumers with options. The dwindling supply of oil helps to keep us looking for places that are "walkable" and has "good transit".
There is no stigma in walking or taking transit with millennials, generally speaking. People older than us *seemingly* believe that walking or taking transit to get somewhere is "beneath" their salary, or job title, or whatever.
It seems to me that millennials want options on how to get around, and it *seems* to me that people older than us only want the option that solidifies/reaffirms their status in the "American Dream".
My thoughts.
I don't really buy this "generational" thing. I am an older Boomer and I grew up taking public transportation, walking and biking to get where I needed to go. I walked to elementary school, took a school bus to jr. high (ecch) and a city bus to HS. My DH did similar. This "urban living" stuff was being ballyhooed when I was a young adult as well. Live in the city, yada, yada. DH and I did live in the city when we were newlyweds, and he also grew up in "the city". We were going to change the world, rearrange the world. Older people than your generation have been on this earth a lot longer. What goes around comes around. The details may be different, but in the end, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
This bit that the easily discovered/recovered oil is all gone does not seem to hold water. People have been saying that for decades. I'm not sticking my head in the sand, but I don't think the sky is falling, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite
To quote a boomer hero, Jackson Browne, "Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet." The oil that's being drilled now is more difficult to extract, more environmentally damaging (shale is a horrorshow), more accident prone. It's more expensive for these reasons and because China and India seem determined to go through the joys of auto dependence (though the Chinese are definitely having second thoughts). The days of cheap gas are already gone forever and even the supply of difficult oil is going to run out. The society can either prepare or just pretend it won't happen until we have start doing things that are drastic.
See my response above. In addition, never underestimate the ability of human beings to adapt. Who would have thought, even 15 years ago, that hybrid cars would become so popular?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
