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I just did an image search for 'typical suburban neighborhood' and I found this image which turns out is in Sacramento. Imagine that the front yard line just kept extending out and out instead of it being cut off at the pavement line. It would be a more inviting area and would probably increase demand for tenants, at least those who'd be willing to sleep more than a few steps from their car.
If at some point the need for housing/office/retail space becomes a relevant factor, it wouldn't be too imposing to build a skinny strip of buildings in the middle of the road, creating 2 alleyways.
The problem is that pedestrian-friendly environments are just the opposite of that: on the same page was a far more pedestrian-oriented neighborhood, also in Sacramento:
Most of the "yard" in that photo is a six-foot mowstrip in between the sidewalk and the curb. It's a mixed-use neighborhood, the yards are just a few feet deep, and in the case of the buildings in the photo, essentially nonexistent. Pedestrians have plenty of space to walk, and there is a lot of daytime and evening pedestrian activity, even though this road is a major commuter corridor in a city with fairly feeble regional public transit and highly auto-dependent suburbs. It's across the street from a city park with a playground, and a mixture of commercial, residential and recreational uses, and a block and a half from light rail.
Put simply, you are ignoring the fact that this "residential park" approach has been tried (it is the basic principle of the "superblock") and it does not work. Your model is based on keeping land use separate (a "residential park") which means cars are absolutely necessary for getting from one use to another--you haven't mentioned public transit or how people get from home to work or commercial or recreational activities at all. If they're set up with the same physical relationship as car-centric suburbs, they will use cars to get between them regardless of whether or not their car is parked in the driveway or a garage down the (unpaved) street.
We have about 10" of snow on the ground right now, up to two feet is predicted before this storm stops. It is not practical to drag groceries through the snow. Just one example.
I agree with Malloric. There are lots of kids playing in the streets in my subdivision. Traffic is extremely light, limited to the people that live here, delivery vehicles, the mail trucks, and service vehicles (e.g. police).
Put simply, you are ignoring the fact that this "residential park" approach has been tried (it is the basic principle of the "superblock") and it does not work. Your model is based on keeping land use separate (a "residential park") which means cars are absolutely necessary for getting from one use to another--you haven't mentioned public transit or how people get from home to work or commercial or recreational activities at all.
Again, you've unfairly called superblock / residential towers in the park as autocentric. Yes, when built in areas that are not high density, they are inappropriate. But there is nothing wrong with residential superblocks when done well, though I won't call them an ideal urban form.
For example if I lived in Manhattan, I think I would prefer a superblock development like this:
over many of the more traditional urban residences. I really can't see anything objectional to this development, other than rather ugly public housing-style buildings. And it's definitely not autocentric. (This might be the largest residential superblock in the country by population; NY Times columnist David Brooks grew up here)
We have about 10" of snow on the ground right now, up to two feet is predicted before this storm stops. It is not practical to drag groceries through the snow. Just one example.
You've mentioned this before, and I've never understood why walking in the snow is so impractical. Roads and plowed and sidewalks and shoveled. Driving in snowy conditions is worse than walking in them.
I agree that the placing you car elsewhere is unnecessarily inconvenient. But the seclusion of having a house on a carless street appeals to me. Like the streets labelled "Walks" in this neighborhood I posted:
I've never understood why walking in the snow is so impractical. Roads and plowed and sidewalks and shoveled.
Maybe where you live. And the thought of trying to hang onto multiple bags of groceries while navigating icy, rutted sidewalks with the goal of staying on two feet is not appealing. And I'm not sure whether trying to pull one of those little metal carts through packed snow and rutted ice had would be any easier.
You've mentioned this before, and I've never understood why walking in the snow is so impractical. Roads and plowed and sidewalks and shoveled. Driving in snowy conditions is worse than walking in them.
I agree that the placing you car elsewhere is unnecessarily inconvenient. But the seclusion of having a house on a carless street appeals to me. Like the streets labelled "Walks" in this neighborhood I posted:
I'd like to have a house on a place like that. I do see why it might be inconvenient, but I would take it with all the inconveniences.
What Ohiogirl81 said!
I will add: I can drive my car into my garage and unload the groceries from there. I don't have to unload them into a carrier of some sort, and trudge through the snow on in some cases unshoveled sidewalks, then unload them again! We have 24 hours after a snowfall to shovel our walks in this city, although DH and the next door neighbor usually get out right away to at least shovel a path. However, DH went skiing today (was planned before the storm) and I can't shovel due to my recent surgery (not allowed to fall on the ice), so our walk remains unshoveled as well. The walk will get shoveled tomorrow, though if the weather forecast is correct, we'll have till noon Sunday to do so, b/c it's supposed to snow until noon tomorrow.
Add into the mix a couple of toddlers, oh, doesn't that sound like fun! Toddlers whining all the way home from the car park, mom pushing her cart in the snow! The bags get wet from the snow and rip when mom picks them up to bring into the house. Broken eggs on the front porch. A real Norman Rockwell scene! Mom heads directly to the liquor cabinet.
Garage access to the house is definitely a perk. However I don't think it's as impossible to do without as you present. Remember, if you are going to be walking to a grocery store in the first place (snow or not) chances are you live pretty darn close so that a trip to the grocery store takes very little time ... thus, you buy fewer products, and you don't feel the need to stock up for the whole decade. So there would be fewer products to carry home.
During the "snowpocalypse" of '09, when we in Baltimore got 4 feet of snow over a 24 hour period followed two days later by 10 inches of snow, I was real glad to be able to walk to the grocery store as driving was impossible for about 10 days. Any road that wasn't a main artery was impassible for cars.
And anyway, it almost doesn't matter, because so many grocery stores deliver now and I think that trend will continue. You can even order food on Amazon, which blows my mind.
Garage access to the house is definitely a perk. However I don't think it's as impossible to do without as you present. Remember, if you are going to be walking to a grocery store in the first place (snow or not) chances are you live pretty darn close so that a trip to the grocery store takes very little time ... thus, you buy fewer products, and you don't feel the need to stock up for the whole decade. So there would be fewer products to carry home.
During the "snowpocalypse" of '09, when we in Baltimore got 4 feet of snow over a 24 hour period followed two days later by 10 inches of snow, I was real glad to be able to walk to the grocery store as driving was impossible for about 10 days. Any road that wasn't a main artery was impassible for cars.
And anyway, it almost doesn't matter, because so many grocery stores deliver now and I think that trend will continue. You can even order food on Amazon, which blows my mind.
At least none that allow you to bring small children in with you!
I agree with what you said, however, we were talking about a scenario of having some sort of garage complex for a subdivision, and having just walking paths to the houses from the garage barn. So you could drive your ten miles in your SUV to buy a carton of milk like we suburbanites do , and still have to trudge home with it.
I don't know if many stores are delivering groceries here, today. If you don't have it in your cupboard, freezer, etc, you're SOL!
I can't shovel due to my recent surgery (not allowed to fall on the ice)
That's a good policy, surgery or not! Hope you're back to shoveling ability soon, even if your husband still does the work!
Quote:
The bags get wet from the snow and rip when mom picks them up to bring into the house. Broken eggs on the front porch. A real Norman Rockwell scene! Mom heads directly to the liquor cabinet.
You don't need kids for that to happen ... and nevermind how I know that.
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Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown
Because there are no walkable bars in the burbs!
There are two within two blocks of my house, but I wouldn't want to go into either one of them. So I drive to a nicer bar a couple miles away.
Quote:
And anyway, it almost doesn't matter, because so many grocery stores deliver now and I think that trend will continue.
You do pay handsomely for the service, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I agree with what you said, however, we were talking about a scenario of having some sort of garage complex for a subdivision, and having just walking paths to the houses from the garage barn.
Depending on the neighborhood, though, there could be a security issue. I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be walking a couple of blocks from a central garage to my home late at night.
I agree with what you said, however, we were talking about a scenario of having some sort of garage complex for a subdivision, and having just walking paths to the houses from the garage barn. So you could drive your ten miles in your SUV to buy a carton of milk like we suburbanites do , and still have to trudge home with it.
!
Oh I hadn't realized that's what we were talking about. You're right, that would be double-dumb.
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, and still have to trudge home with it.
