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Old 09-09-2007, 11:25 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,825 posts, read 12,335,844 times
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What do you all think about gentrifying urban areas?

Personally I'm not too optimistic on it. If its rebuilding a decayed and empty/abandoned part like Baltimore and the Inner Harbor it can be a good thing to attract business back into the city.

But then like in DC when its done as slum clearing, all it does is push the ghetto outward into other areas. Unfortunately this includes Maryland where many subrbs are overrun with criminals and illegal immigrants.

Also, I don't think its a workable solution to suburban sprawl. I know that I will not settle down inside a major city. NO matter how safe it is or how good the schools are, I don't want to look out my window and see concrete and cars everywhere.....I want that open space, quiet, privacy, and fresh air that only the suburbs (and small towns) can provide.
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:29 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,825 posts, read 12,335,844 times
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To add to that, I don't think its possible to completely get rid of the ghetto. Any economy has rich people and poor people, its not feasible to make everybody rich and able to afford to live in a nice area. Sounds very harsh but its the way it is.

So if it HAS to exist, maybe its better to concentrate it in a small area. Also you know how in France and Third World counties like Mexico, Brazil and Thailand how the nice areas are in the city and they are surrounded by miles and miels of impoverished suburbs? I don't think that's a good feeling where the ghetto surrounds you. There's a kind of siege mentality in that kind of geograhical arrangement. Rather have the ghetto cover a small area and be surrounded by nicer places that dominate the region.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:01 AM
 
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well get ready because most of the major US cities are gentrifying and the poor are being pushed out to the burbs. Personally I think it's great since cities are our economic & cultural hearts. Suburbs are nothing but expansive wastes that are environmentally disasterous.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:05 AM
 
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I support gentrification. While gentrification can drive up property values and drive some poorer residents out of the neighborhood, it's a good way to bring investment money into a run down part of the city. Without renovations inner cities will continue to deteriorate. Which causes crime rates to further increase, even lower employment rates, and a cycle of ever increasing poverty.

I think the key is to have proper city planning. Frequently modern bars and restaurants, condominiums, and townhouses are the first to come into an area, and they drive up property values and consequently rents as well. But cities can control the development and require some low income housing to be part of the renovations. Also after property is renovated in an area incomes increase, jobs return, schools get better, and commerce increases, which results in higher revenues generated for the city due to increased property taxes and taxes. Which means the city has more money to spend on services, frequently to the poor.

Many cities are space limited. They can't expand because they butt up against other cities, or because they are physically limited due to rivers or other geography issues. So when flight from the inner cities occurs that's been so common over the last generation or two, the result is a permanent loss of revenue. Infrastructure and services decline. Poverty increases as the job losses mount and a cycle of poverty results. Gentrification turns this deteriorating cycle around.

Certainly people are displaced. But with jobs returning to the neighborhood many at least have the opportunity to improve their lot in life.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:15 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,937,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
well get ready because most of the major US cities are gentrifying and the poor are being pushed out to the burbs. Personally I think it's great since cities are our economic & cultural hearts. Suburbs are nothing but expansive wastes that are environmentally disasterous.
This pretty much describes my feelings. I'd like to see our large cities become vital places again, and "respectable places to live". For this to happen, we need to "clean up" and revitalize the once-thriving inner city.

Terrapin, I think your example of the huge slums in some third-world countries ignores one important fact---the percentage of "poor" in US society---and the "depth" of their poverty--are much smaller here than in those countries. America -at this point, at least--simply does not have enough poor people to surround her cities with huge slums as are found overseas. I can't see this happening unless we suffer some sort of catastrophic downturn.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:48 AM
 
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Lmao..... Good solution to get rid of the ghetto's? Offer solid education to the citizens and actually hire them. This usually helps get rid of ghettos.....
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:11 AM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,106,917 times
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Originally Posted by Zippy7fo View Post
Lmao..... Good solution to get rid of the ghetto's? Offer solid education to the citizens and actually hire them. This usually helps get rid of ghettos.....

We as a nation are spending more money on education than we ever have in our nations history. It doesn't seem to be working.

Besides, property taxes support local schools. Gentrification increases property values, taxes increase, and the schools get more money.

Of course, you can't teach students who choose not to learn.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:19 AM
 
17,297 posts, read 25,709,107 times
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I live in a "gentrified" area. The way I look at it is, you've had your chance, you've destroyed something that was once beautiful, and now it's time for someone else to have a shot.

Preserving the ghetto is nothing to be srtived for. People tend to want to get OUT of the ghetto, as dense impoverished living is infinitely worse than rural poverty living (compare crime in Appalachia to Detroit).

Personally, I'm much less concerned about "gentrification" than I am with "degradation" and "ghettoization" of previously good neighborhoods. Especially in my area, historic neighborhoods have become wrought with crime and decay.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,672,077 times
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Default The cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin2212 View Post
What do you all think about gentrifying urban areas?

Personally I'm not too optimistic on it. If its rebuilding a decayed and empty/abandoned part like Baltimore and the Inner Harbor it can be a good thing to attract business back into the city.

But then like in DC when its done as slum clearing, all it does is push the ghetto outward into other areas. Unfortunately this includes Maryland where many subrbs are overrun with criminals and illegal immigrants.

Also, I don't think its a workable solution to suburban sprawl. I know that I will not settle down inside a major city. NO matter how safe it is or how good the schools are, I don't want to look out my window and see concrete and cars everywhere.....I want that open space, quiet, privacy, and fresh air that only the suburbs (and small towns) can provide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin2212 View Post
To add to that, I don't think its possible to completely get rid of the ghetto. Any economy has rich people and poor people, its not feasible to make everybody rich and able to afford to live in a nice area. Sounds very harsh but its the way it is.

So if it HAS to exist, maybe its better to concentrate it in a small area. Also you know how in France and Third World counties like Mexico, Brazil and Thailand how the nice areas are in the city and they are surrounded by miles and miels of impoverished suburbs? I don't think that's a good feeling where the ghetto surrounds you. There's a kind of siege mentality in that kind of geograhical arrangement. Rather have the ghetto cover a small area and be surrounded by nicer places that dominate the region.



I understand your concern on the ghettos being moved out of some cities in the U.S. You don't want what are nice areas being brought down by certain elements from ghettos. But to be honest it's going to happen. The current mood of the American people is that cities are a great place to live and they are willing to pay to be there.
This current mood is only part in a continuing cycle. Remember that during the 50's, 60's and 70's people fled the cities for the X-burbs because it was the mood of the American people that the cities were not the place to be. And basically this current mood will probably end in 30 years and people will move back to the X-burbs and the cycle will repeat itself. Basically "What's old is new again."

As for poor people being confined to one area. Well I can kind of see your point but let's try to be positive about the situation. If we can separate huge clumps of poor folk and give them some space between each other. These folk might be able to find some opportunities that they may not have see being stuck in a confining space like a city. We'll be able to actually see if this is true in 10 -20 years because of the mass exodus from New Orleans after Katrina.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 13,504,239 times
Reputation: 4884
Default Why should we ignore the little people?

I've seen too much of this sort of thing. Around here, that's ALL that's been going on. Virginia Beach has even TORN down housing areas because they are "eye sores." An entire trailer park (that wasn't too bad..) that enhoused over 200 families was torn down about 4 years ago for a high-end condo-housing project. The area STILL has nothing built and is just a land fill that becomes a mini-lake everytime it rains.

As for the 2 trailer parks right next to that area and the 500+ families.. they're next.

The city is basically destroying the "affordable" housing options and putting in high priced town houses and condos. Essentially, they want to push out the "low income" into outlying areas of Norfolk and Chesapeake. The "low end" housing prices have skyrocketed to the 200's because of this "revitalization" of Virginia Beach as a whole, the making of "Towne Center, and the military (we have EVERY branch right here).

Norfolk has attempted this with the Ocean View area.. The only result is that I would actually drive on Shore Drive during the daylight (but still not night!!) without worrying about being robbed or shot. Thing is, you now have multi-million dollar homes right next to the ghetto. LOVELY idea in my opinion.

Norfolk, because of the gentrification, is now a mix of high-class and ghetto with almost no "middle ground." I would NEVER buy or live in Norfolk because of this. The good areas are literally right next to the bad.. and well. It's not good.


Personally, there have to be "low end" areas of each area/metro. Unless everybody plans on paying janitors the same as the programmers/IT specialists so that everybody can afford the same housing... you need low-end and inexpensive housing.

And, when we pay the janitors and burger flippers the same as "8-5 white collar drones," I will quit my "white collar" job and go back to fast food.
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