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There is little to suggest that Atlanta is walkable even in a functional sense. Less than 140,000 residents live in walkscores above 70, roughly 50,000 above 80. The amount of cars per capita in Atlanta (per kidphilly's link) in the metro region is much higher than similarly sized metros like Dallas and Houston.
I think you bring up an interesting analysis. How will these new downtown's Atlanta(downtown/Midtown), Dallas, Houston, Austin, Rosslyn-Ballston, Tyson's Corner, Bethesda, Silver Spring feel at total build out? They will all be brand new in about 20 years or so. How will they feel in relation to the question you posed? Will they be an enjoyable urban experience?
That's in the eye of the beholder. I know some people who are perfectly satisfied living in Downtown Silver Spring and Rosslyn. They can enjoy a NYC-lite lifestyle over an area of .2 sq. miles and not have to deal with mice, break ins, street harassment, and high taxes. For them, the cons of true city living outweigh the pros.
I personally enjoy cities. I enjoy being able to walk for hours in a city that never ends. That's why I love Paris so much. I could walk there non-stop. I can walk around Manhattan for hours and not even notice it. I can walk all around DC for a bit, too.
There is little to suggest that Atlanta is walkable even in a functional sense. Less than 140,000 residents live in walkscores above 70, roughly 50,000 above 80. The amount of cars per capita in Atlanta (per kidphilly's link) in the metro region is much higher than similarly sized metros like Dallas and Houston.
When my brother first moved to Atlanta, he lived in an apartment building that was on top of a grocery store and a restaurant. If you live in Downtown, Midtown, Ansley Park, the West End, certain parts of Buckhead or Five Points, you could live without a car and be able to walk to shops, the subway, or a bus stop.
The difference between Atlanta and the Tier 1 cities is obviously intensity and scale. In the Tier 1 cities, you can walk quite a while before the walkable infrastucture "runs out."
When my brother first moved to Atlanta, he lived in an apartment building that was on top of a grocery store and a restaurant. If you live in Downtown, Midtown, Ansley Park, the West End, certain parts of Buckhead or Five Points, you could live without a car and be able to walk to shops, the subway, or a bus stop.
The difference between Atlanta and the Tier 1 cities is obviously intensity and scale. In the Tier 1 cities, you can walk quite a while before the walkable infrastucture "runs out."
You can live without a car in any city, it just depends on how much you want to sacrifice.
In Atlanta you end up sacrificing a lot. There are plenty of bus stops, and MARTA (which sort of makes a + through the perimeter) but wait times between buses is often 20-30 minutes. Sometimes greater. And that's within the perimeter. A lot to Atlanta is beyond the perimeter when it comes to just about anything from restaurants, to shopping, etc I moved right by Lindbergh station center, and I felt isolated from most of Atlanta even though I got on fine without a car when it came to daily needs. I still felt like I really wanted it and it would make my life a lot better.
Despite saying all that, Atlanta still feels like a medium to large sized city. It's probably the lowest density city I lived in, but it still has a lot of features that make a city urban: some highrises (mostly in midtown), tons of cultural amenities (spread out), some PT, and a city sense of a lot of the people living there when it comes to pace of life and fashion (probably because many are transplants).
An interesting question is who believes San Diego is more urban than Atlanta? San Diego has slightly stronger urban form, mostly in population density and maybe somewhat in structural density outside the core. But it has worse everything else, worse PT, less cultural amenities, and less city sense amongst the people (San Diego is very provincial and feels like a large town). Not to mention Atlanta is 2x as big and is a hub for the southeast while San Diego is only a hub for her MSA.
That's in the eye of the beholder. I know some people who are perfectly satisfied living in Downtown Silver Spring and Rosslyn. They can enjoy a NYC-lite lifestyle over an area of .2 sq. miles and not have to deal with mice, break ins, street harassment, and high taxes. For them, the cons of true city living outweigh the pros.
I personally enjoy cities. I enjoy being able to walk for hours in a city that never ends. That's why I love Paris so much. I could walk there non-stop. I can walk around Manhattan for hours and not even notice it. I can walk all around DC for a bit, too.
When NOMA, Capital Riverfront, SW Waterfront, Atlas District, and Shaw reach total build out by about 2020, I wonder how different the experience walking will be. You will be able to walk for a pretty extensive area in a couple years in DC. The core built up area in a couple years will be close to double what it is now if you factor in the breaks in intensity that will be eliminated in warehouse districts. Walking is about to get a whole lot easier. Funny thing is, DC's walkscore is going to increase by a substancial margin because of all the ammenities that are being built in neighborhoods that used to be just gun fire all day even though they were already urban to begin with. Somehow, a filled store front with a grocery store is more urban than a pawn or check cashing shop. Go figure.
On a side note, I will say that is why walkscore doesn't mean much to me because an area with no urban building form can have a high walkscore because it's rich and has ammenities. Buildings don't have to form a wall or even come up to the street. It's a pretty flawed system if you try to relate it to the urban built environment.
You can live without a car in any city, it just depends on how much you want to sacrifice.
In Atlanta you end up sacrificing a lot. There are plenty of bus stops, and MARTA (which sort of makes a + through the perimeter) but wait times between buses is often 20-30 minutes. Sometimes greater. And that's within the perimeter. A lot to Atlanta is beyond the perimeter when it comes to just about anything from restaurants, to shopping, etc I moved right by Lindbergh station center, and I felt isolated from most of Atlanta even though I got on fine without a car when it came to daily needs. I still felt like I really wanted it and it would make my life a lot better.
Yeah, you're kinda limiting yourself without a car in Atlanta. Is it possible to live there without a car? Sure. But the city is not set up for that type of lifestyle. For the most part, you'd be limited to staying in those areas unless you have a lot of patience to figure out bus schedules. It's just too spread out for me to ever want to live there without a car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire
An interesting question is who believes San Diego is more urban than Atlanta? San Diego has slightly stronger urban form, mostly in population density and maybe somewhat in structural density outside the core. But it has worse everything else, worse PT, less cultural amenities, and less city sense amongst the people (San Diego is very provincial and feels like a large town)
When my brother first moved to Atlanta, he lived in an apartment building that was on top of a grocery store and a restaurant. If you live in Downtown, Midtown, Ansley Park, the West End, certain parts of Buckhead or Five Points, you could live without a car and be able to walk to shops, the subway, or a bus stop.
The difference between Atlanta and the Tier 1 cities is obviously intensity and scale. In the Tier 1 cities, you can walk quite a while before the walkable infrastucture "runs out."
Off topic, but do you have any idea why there are so many grey-colored areas in Atlanta when you look at Google Maps? I looked up Ansley Park and it is one of those: Ansley Park, Atlanta, GA - Google Maps
If you look, it is far from the only place... There is also Centennial Place that looks like this, Cabbagetown, Kirkwood, etc.
On a side note, I will say that is why walkscore doesn't mean much to me because an area with no urban building form can have a high walkscore because it's rich and has ammenities. Buildings don't have to form a wall or even come up to the street. It's a pretty flawed system if you try to relate it to the urban built environment.
Walk score is just one facet of urbanity. The problem here is people have been focusing on one or two statistics if they complete the picture.
Walk score/structural density/population density are probably the 3 easiest statistics to combine to give us an overall urban picture but even those 3 say nothing about other categories such as:
Public Transportation options
Vibrancy
Big city amenities (like a large airport)
Diversity in cultural amenities (Atlanta has a lot of chain restaurants for example)
Off topic, but do you have any idea why there are so many grey-colored areas in Atlanta when you look at Google Maps? I looked up Ansley Park and it is one of those: Ansley Park, Atlanta, GA - Google Maps
If you look, it is far from the only place... There is also Centennial Place that looks like this, Cabbagetown, Kirkwood, etc.
Atlanta has a lot of patches of forest within the city limits. Its the greenest city by far I've been in. far greener than Seattle or Portland for instance.
Walk score is just one facet of urbanity. The problem here is people have been focusing on one or two statistics if they complete the picture.
Walk score/structural density/population density are probably the 3 easiest statistics to combine to give us an overall urban picture but even those 3 say nothing about other categories such as:
Public Transportation options
Vibrancy
Big city amenities (like a large airport)
Diversity in cultural amenities (Atlanta has a lot of chain restaurants for example)
Great Points!
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