Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When NOMA, Capital Riverfront, SW Waterfront, Atlas District, and Shaw reach total build out by about 2020, I wonder how different the experience walking will be. You will be able to walk for a pretty extensive area in a couple years in DC. The core built up area in a couple years will be close to double what it is now if you factor in the breaks in intensity that will be eliminated in warehouse districts.
The "Manhattan" of DC ends where Mount Pleasant meets Rock Creek Park. By "Manhattan," I mean the dense, contiguous, pedestrian-centric part of the city where you can walk in any given direction with little if any variation in built form. That's roughly about 15-18 sq. miles (give or take a little if you were to draw an irregular boundary to capture neighborhoods west of the park). That's excellent by American standards. Most cities can only hold a built form like that (uninterrupted and contiguosly, that is) over a span of a few blocks. Their urban areas feel "patchy" in comparison and peter out fairly quickly.
That said, I'm not sure how much NoMa and the like will do to enhance the walking experience. True, they are better than what preceded them, but that's not saying a whole lot.
The "Manhattan" of DC ends where Mount Pleasant meets Rock Creek Park. By "Manhattan," I mean the dense, contiguous, pedestrian-centric part of the city where you can walk in any given direction with little if any variation in built form. That's roughly about 15-18 sq. miles (give or take a little if you were to draw an irregular boundary to capture neighborhoods west of the park). That's excellent by American standards. Most cities can only hold a built form like that (uninterrupted and contiguosly, that is) over a span of a few blocks. Their urban areas feel "patchy" in comparison and peter out fairly quickly.
That said, I'm not sure how much NoMa and the like will do to enhance the walking experience. True, they are better than what preceded them, but that's not saying a whole lot.
Well, I don't know how you feel about Penn Quarter but NOMA and Capital Riverfront will be exact mirrors to those neighborhoods.
On a side note.
I have been wondering how the shrinking government presence will effect downtown DC. I think it may actually have the potential to shoot DC through the stratoshere in terms of downtown's. If you think about how many office buildings can be flipped into residential buildings across downtown over the years, downtown DC could have the potential to blow up. This is exactly what has happened to Center City. The residential conversion's and new residential construction has turned Center City Philly into one of the most populated and best downtown's in the nation. Could you imagine what a major shift in downtown office buildings to residential could do to downtown DC's experience?
Well, I don't know how you feel about Penn Quarter but NOMA and Capital Riverfront will be exact mirrors to those neighborhoods.
Penn Quarter is seamlessly integrated into Downtown. NoMa is not. Capital Riverfront is on the other side of an interstate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I have been wondering how the shrinking government presence will effect Downtown DC.
The money cut from the executive branch's operations budget (not much) just goes towards paying lawyers, lobbyists and contractors (indirectly). So I don't think it will have any effect on Downtown. I think you have to be very naive to believe that that growth machine will ever slow down. Civilization has always been ruled by a small group of elites and the United States is no exception. The elites are going to get theirs no matter what.
I actually think more people will start to visit the city "DC" from the suburbs than they do now with all that is happening in DC. DC is becoming a more "Manhattan" type magnet for the region as a "destination" with crime free falling, a substantial restaurant scene forming, extreme density growing, and massive waterfronts under construction.
DC has always been dangerous to many suburbanites from DC's days as the murder capital for decades. Now that the city is going through this makeover, I see there being a new massive draw to venture into the city that hasn't existed since pre 1950's.
Maybe becoming more like a Boston/SF/Philly than Manhattan, you have crawl before you walk
This is pretty similar in Los Angeles too - I've never really been to Long Beach (and Pasadena only once). There are people in the SFV that rarely if ever venture "over the hill" and vice versa. I also rarely go to the Westside (more out of avoidance). The vast majority of my experience in LA is in Central LA and a little in South LA and the Eastside.
I think in any huge city / metro this is going to be the case, though Los Angeles is a pretty extreme example of decentralization.
Los Angeles is also unique in that its city limit population is comparable to all but a handful of urban areas in this country. Saying "few people in DC head out to Virginia" isn't much different than saying "people in Hollywood rarely head out to Chatsworth".
Central L.A. (minus the Hollywood Hills)is the same size as San Francisco, and easily functions as a city within a city.
Saying "few people in DC head out to Virginia" isn't much different than saying "people in Hollywood rarely head out to Chatsworth".
You do realize that the official boundaries of Hollywood are larger than Manhattan's, right?
Hollywood = 24.96 sq. miles
Manhattan = 22.96 sq. miles
Yet there are hundreds of thousands of Manhattanites who have probably not set foot off the island in months and have never felt any need to. They can do everythingthey could ever want or need to do in those 23 sq. miles. You never hear people say that you'll somehow be "limiting your options" by living in Manhattan without a car. That's the difference.
You do realize that the official boundaries of Hollywood are larger than Manhattan's, right?
Hollywood = 24.96 sq. miles
Manhattan = 22.96 sq. miles
Yet there are hundreds of thousands of Manhattanites who have probably not set foot off the island in months and have never felt any need to. They can do everythingthey could ever want or need to do in those 23 sq. miles. You never hear people say that you'll somehow be "limiting your options" by living in Manhattan without a car. That's the difference.
You do realize that the official boundaries of Hollywood are larger than Manhattan's, right?
Hollywood = 24.96 sq. miles
Manhattan = 22.96 sq. miles
Yet there are hundreds of thousands of Manhattanites who have probably not set foot off the island in months and have never felt any need to. They can do everythingthey could ever want or need to do in those 23 sq. miles. You never hear people say that you'll somehow be "limiting your options" by living in Manhattan without a car. That's the difference.
Hollywood is nowhere near that big--even if you incorporate all the Hollywood Hills and Griffith Park, it isn't that big. I have no idea where that number comes from:
57.87 sq miles with the hills to the north, 45.99 sq miles without them. 836,638 residents with the hills (14,500 ppsm) with the hills, 800,000 (17,000 ppsm) without them. You have 200k more residents living in this chunk of land than all of DC (and all of Boston), in a smaller area of land. It can easily function as a city within a city.
You have 200k more residents living in this chunk of land than all of DC (and all of Boston), in a smaller area of land. It can easily function as a city within a city.
That's all well and good. But that doesn't address the point, does it? In NYC, you can live on an island and do everything you want or need to do in a 23 sq. mile area (and public transit takes you everywhere you would want to go). There's no sense whatsoever that you're somehow limiting your social life or job opportunities because the whole entire region operates around those 23 sq. miles. DC is similar in the sense that the whole entire region operates around the core. There's never a psychological sense that you're limiting your options by staying in such a small area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound
Good post fastfilm, and good point. It's not impossible to live in Los Angeles without a car, but it would be incredibly limiting. Los Angeles is not built like a lot of other urban areas where all the conveniences and necessities are found within a small area. Most of us residents end up driving all over the place for employment, shopping, entertainment, educational, medical and other needs. There are only a very few areas of the city where a person with limited needs might find all of them within easy biking distance. In all practicality you'll be traveling 200-300 miles a week and that's low for most of us. At my last job I traveled 250 miles a week just to work and back. Taking cre8's 12 miles in 40 minutes, that's 18 mph or about 14 hours a week and probably more. I don't know about anybody else but I would find it difficult peddling my ass around on a bicycle for 2+ hours a day every day of the week, and that's a lot of time out of your day too.
Not impossible to live in LA without a car, but pretty damned difficult, and limiting too. It's too bad we don't have an excellent transit system, perhaps like NY, but the fact is that we don't. Anybody who doesn't want a car would be better suited for one of those cities with good transit. LA isn't it.
I think this makes my point. Nobody would ever say this about living in DC, Philly, Manhattan, etc.
Atlanta has a lot of patches of forest within the city limits. Its the greenest city by far I've been in. far greener than Seattle or Portland for instance.
Oh I was actually talking about the "animated" or colored google map, not the satellite view. I feel like it is the color designation google gives cemeteries.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
