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Old 05-23-2012, 01:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
For example, the average black person working in corporate America has to learn more about Tom Petty, Phish and movies like Juno than the average young white person working in corporate America has to learn about the Barcays, Con Funk Shun, or Mahogany.
I know enough about the Barkays to know that they were spelled with a "k"...

Also, I'd be willing to bet that most people under the age of 35, whether white, or black or Hispanic or Asian would be able to name three songs by the Barkays. Not even "Soul Finger" or "Son of Shaft"(I've got that stuff on vinyl and I was born in '79)...

On the other hand I was confused as hell, when I got a job in Hillsboro, Oregon out of college and when I went out with my co-workers I was the only person there who didn't know the lyrics to the Garth Brooks song "Friends in Low Places".
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
I know enough about the Barkays to know that they were spelled with a "k"...
lol, yeah, I did miss that one...

Oh the irony...
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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When I was an undergraduate, I learned about gentrification from an academic setting, where it was presented as a bad thing. In the real world, I have to say that overall I think it's a neutral process.

First off, living in Pittsburgh, I've come to realize that there are some neighborhoods where it's unquestionably a positive. Take my own neighborhood, Lawrenceville. Prior to gentrification, it was one of the oldest neighborhoods in the city, with 30% of the population over age 65. These people were literally dying off, and their children, by and large, were not moving into these houses, as they had already scattered throughout the suburbs or even across America. When the rowhouses go vacant, they either get bought by urban pioneers/fixed up into high-end rentals, or else get picked up by slumlords, with people from outside of the neighborhood moving in. Some sort of transition was inevitable. And this is far from the only case of this in the city - most neighborhoods which flipped were semi-depopulated white-working class areas, not the black neighborhoods.

Secondly, if there is nothing wrong with a streetcar suburb designed for the upper-middle class first becoming white-working class, then later becoming black/Latino/whatever, then there is nothing wrong with the process reversing itself. Yes, if it happens on a city-wide basis, and you end up with places like San Francisco where there are literally no affordable neighborhoods left, it can be an issue. But I think the rise and fall of communities in terms of desirability is a natural thing, not something to be feared.

Indeed, a gain using Pittsburgh as an example, the areas most heavily gentrified were generally in neighborhoods with either somewhat grand rowhouses or detatched brick houses of near mansion status. A working-class family can't afford to heat these properly, let alone maintain them and restore them, which means their fate would otherwise be being subdivided into apartments with the original architectural features totally erased.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And what causes the cultural clashes in the first place. It is a complex phenomenon because you're often dealing with gentrifiers (mostly white) who are not accustomed to accommodation. The best comparison I can come up with is the American female princess entitlement complex. There's no thought that, "Hey, maybe I can approach him," or "Hey, maybe I should pay for dinner." She's been so accustomed to getting things her way for so long that those considerations never enter her cerebral cortex. She finds the very notion that a woman should, say, buy her own engagement ring absolutely offensive (even though she gives the man nothing in return).

You guys should try that sometimes. Try explaining to a girl why women should buy their own engagement rings and watch the logic firewall get erected.

I bought my wife an engagement ring, and I didn't even own a rental house in Bloomingdale. If you can't afford a fancy one, get a cheaper one. And if you can't agree on this sort of thing, well, you aren't married yet.

By the way, I don't think I've heard the phrase "American Princess" in regard to these issues except as part of the phrase "Jewish American Princess" or "***". where it has strong misogynistic as well as antisemitic overtones.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:32 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
By the way, I don't think I've heard the phrase "American Princess" in regard to these issues except as part of the phrase "Jewish American Princess" or "***". where it has strong misogynistic as well as antisemitic overtones.
It's a bit of a dumb stereotype but only of a subculture of a certain demographic not everyone. I always thought it was equivalent to "valley girl" and not really anymore offensive.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Jewish-American princess stereotype - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stereotypes in the United States | Jewish Women's Archive

It may that being a boomer, and Jewish, and strongly exposed to feminism, I've heard the critique of the "J-A-P" stereotype and its implications more than some folks have.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
By the way, I don't think I've heard the phrase "American Princess" in regard to these issues except as part of the phrase "Jewish American Princess" or "***". where it has strong misogynistic as well as antisemitic overtones.
Why do you always find a way to inject Jewishness into every single one of your posts? It's like you're always looking for a reason to bring that up. That was the farthest thing from my mind when I made that analogy.

Urban Dictionary: princess complex
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:52 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Why do you always find a way to inject Jewishness into every single one of your posts? It's like you're always looking for a reason to bring that up. That was the farthest thing from my mind when I made that analogy.

Urban Dictionary: princess complex

I think of several thousand posts Ive made on Urban planning, DC, and NoVa forums only a few have mentioned anything Jewish.

It does come up when you are complaining about white gentrifiers not assimilating to black culture, because blacks did not (with some rare exceptions) assimilate into the Jewish, Italian, or Irish culture of the areas they moved to. Folks move in, and they live according to their own culture - most especially if the demographic trends indicate that the old culture will be disappearing from the area shortly.

But I'm not sure if you really expect gentrifiers to learn black urban culture, or you're just in kvetchy mood because of something some "dbag" posted on your listserve.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
.....Gentrifiers bring this same obliviousness to the inner city. "What do you mean the neighborhood association voted down dog parks in favor of new trash cans for seniors?" "Why are these people blasting their music out loud for the whole neighborhood to hear?" The heart of the issue, imo, is a group of people that's used to having their way moving into an area with a well-defined culture and showing little willingness to assimilate into that culture.

With Memorial Day coming up, it'll be interesting to see what the demographics of block parties from Brooklyn to DC will look like.

Thoughts.
Certainly describes the gentrification of the Manhattan's Upper West Side in the late Sixties and Seventies...and even many of the long-time resident whites came to hate the invaders.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
Certainly describes the gentrification of the Manhattan's Upper West Side in the late Sixties and Seventies...and even many of the long-time resident whites came to hate the invaders.

the UWS was still declining in the 1960s - at least I think Riverside drive and adjacent blocks were. Things really changed on Columbus avenue in the late 1970s, IIRC.
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