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I'm not sure how one can say the level of misconception people have about the suburbs is akin to what exists regarding urban areas. Most urban boosters, at least, grew up in non-urban settings and only chose to relocate to cities as an adult. We have experience with things like suburban crackheads and walking a mile to get to a store, so it's not as if we're speaking from zero experience.
In contrast, a fair number of suburbanites have really never lived in cities, and seem to display some odd terror regarding the idea.
I just want to make sure I have this correct, people who live in the suburbs have never lived in the city, but people who live in the city moved there from the suburbs.
Ok, if you want to be technical, not ALL urbanites complain about cookie cutter houses, but the point still remains that a common criticism of the suburbs is they have cookie cutter houses. There isn't any difference between that and rowhomes, or twin houses, or condos, and apartments that have the same layout. The block I lived on in the city had nothing but twinhouses. They all looked exactly the same and I know for a fact they all had the same layout.
see my post above, for why that criticism developed
I guess it really depends on the suburb, whether or not the misconceptions are true. Where I used to live, I never once saw a suburban neighborhood that didn't match the stereotypes, except for the neighbors never talking to each other. Many had sidewalks, but there was nothing to walk to. The houses weren't all exactly the same, but there were typically only a few different floor plans, and they all had the same "style". Driving was required for all errands, unless you wanted to walk several miles. Almost all nearby businesses were the same chain stores you'd see anywhere, and of course there was no public transit anywhere nearby. I grew up in a late 60s-early 70s suburban neighborhood, and it mostly fit the stereotype to a "t". Later in life I owned a house in a neighborhood that was built just after WWII (1946), and while it was better with some amenities nearby, walking to any of them was frustrating because there were no sidewalks and LOTS of traffic. The closest transit stop was over a mile away, but to get to a grocery store one would have to transfer at least once, and the whole trip would have taken at least an hour (but that's more telling of the town's pathetic public transit than the neighborhood). In a nearby town in recent years, a developer tried designing a suburban neighborhood that was walkable and utilized a variety of housing styles and included stores, etc. The problem was, it was still built in the middle of nowhere and the few businesses that moved in were really just novelties. There was no grocery store or department store, no necessities. It was a nice idea, but in the end you'd still have to drive everywhere, and leave the neighborhood for just about anything. So while I'm sure (hopeful?) that there are some suburban neighborhoods that don't match the stereotype, I've never actually seen one in person.
I love row homes. But not all urbanites "love to hate" on sameness. It doesn't bother me if the same house is repeated over and over, if I like the look of it. However what I think is a common criticism is that suburbs of X city are very similar to those of Y city, even if X and Y are very different places thousands of miles from one another. "sense of place" is lacking. Whether or not that matters Is simply a matter of personal opinion.
Actually, there is little difference between the rowhouses of the east coast (Baltimore, DC, Philly, etc) and those of Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
I'm not sure how one can say the level of misconception people have about the suburbs is akin to what exists regarding urban areas. Most urban boosters, at least, grew up in non-urban settings and only chose to relocate to cities as an adult. We have experience with things like suburban crackheads and walking a mile to get to a store, so it's not as if we're speaking from zero experience.
In contrast, a fair number of suburbanites have really never lived in cities, and seem to display some odd terror regarding the idea.
I don't know who you're referring to. As an adult, I have lived in two "major" cities, Pittsburgh and Denver, and a couple of smaller cities as well. I don't know how many of the urbanists have lived in the burbs as adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
The critique originated with places like Levittown after WW2.
1. Such developments were massive, and had much, much larger areas of identical homes than urban rowhouse areas did, where a single developer might build a block or so of identical homes.
Such is the case in Denver as well.
2. People were used to a block of rowhomes being identical (or close to it) - the nature of building rowhomes requires at least a similar layout, if not the same details - people were used to single family homes being unique, not mass produced like that
Not true. Look at the bungalows, foursquares, and other styles of older homes in any large city.
3. Some of those mass produced homes were particularly mediocre in their look.
Their buyers thought they were wonderful.
For an example today, look at how SUBURBANITES who live in ramblers and ranches and cape cods often complain about cookie cutter McMansions -by 2000 we had grown used to SFHs looking alike, but seeing large, overtly luxurious SFHs that looked alike, built subdivision style, took many people by surprise.
I suppose now we are starting to get used to even that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Just highlight the 1910-1940 streetcar suburbs as a compromise between rowhouse/triple-decker urbanity and postWW2 ranches and capes. Enjoy the smaller lawns ( still aesthetically-appealing), along with the ability to walk to stores..
Those suburbs were also built as an escape from "the city".
I just want to make sure I have this correct, people who live in the suburbs have never lived in the city, but people who live in the city moved there from the suburbs.
No, you don't have this correct. What they're saying is that many people who live in the suburbs don't have experience living in urban environments, not all of them--and many people currently living in urban environments moved there from the suburbs. They aren't implying universality, but you seem to be inferring it.
That's rigging the game, as it can only be achieved by making it quite difficult to drive.
Or by making it quite easy to walk. If the store is in the ground floor of the building where you live, for example, it's easier to walk than to drive even if there is scads of parking and traffic-free streets.
I'll start, when you live in the suburbs, you never talk to your neighbors.
I lived in a major city for 8 years. I met only 3 of my neighbors in that entire time. We had 20 houses that were on the block. I moved to the suburbs 6 months ago, same situation, 20 houses on the block. We've already had a block party and i met every neighbor on my street. I don't know why people think we just run to our houses and lock our doors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55
Everyone is well off. Kids don't use heroin. Their biggest concern is their lawn.
Here in Chicagoland I hear heroin use is higher amongst those suburban kids and the women have 80's bleach blonde hair and ugly clothes they wear way to tight. So if their well off they certainly aren't coming downtown to Barney's
That's rigging the game, as it can only be achieved by making it quite difficult to drive.
I see your point, but you could also argue making things spread out enough to have sufficient parking and good traffic flow is rigging the game in favor of cars against pedestrians.
For where I live, driving is no more convenient than walking to a good portion of neighboring businesses. Parking isn't available right in front of the business. and they're a short walk away (5-10 mins). Bicycle beats either mode.
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