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I've seen a lot of apprehension toward "city people" on this site by country people who say they move to the country and try to change it to be more like "the city." (i.e. complaining about smelly farms, trying to attract big box stores, etc.)
Whenever I read something like this, I usually point out (if someone else hasn't already) that these aren't "city people" but suburbanites.
Could you perhaps post an example? I mean, I see this on the Colorado forum occasionally, from the old timers who resent newbies moving into rural Colorado, but I've never seen it here on Urban Planning. I don't think we have any regular posters who live in rural areas.
Walkability, small stores everywhere (so there are literally no places without stores, and people window shop constantly), open-air cafes in the summer, density of people so that everyone runs into everyone while walking from place to place, and they get to know one another well, great transportation, natural nature areas should surround the area where the population lives (no residential construction of any sort allowed in those nature areas - people just f things up for animals and plants when they insist in living on huge plots of land away from everything).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKFire108
This is a question to any of the suburbanites here, but also if you're a city person you can also answer this too depending on what you like.
What would be the exact things you'd want to have if you live in a fictitious city and move from where you currently live now? What would make it paradise for you, especially if you're a suburbanite and do not like city living? I ask because many people here say they'd never move to a city even if they were paid $100 million to do it. So what would make you move to a city to make it the paradise of your dreams, if you couldn't live in an auto-centric suburb or rural area?
Let's pretend for a bit that you have a magic wand that can create a city out of thin air and be however you want.
Bare in mind, for this question the rules are that:
-Where you'd move to has to be a city where the part where you live in will be anywhere from 30,000 people per square mile to 100,000+ people per square mile, and within a 5 mile radius at least will be that density from the point where you live. We will assume you live in the middle of it so you won't be able to live on the edge of a city. 100,000+ people per square mile would be similar to the Upper East Side or Upper West Side of Manhattan in New York City.
-When you move there, you'd have to stay there for at least 10 years and you cannot move out before that at the minimum.
-You have the same amount of money that you have now, so you won't go in as a super millionaire.
-All decisions to make it the perfect city... or at least a city that is 'good enough' for you to live there will have realistic effects on everyone else in the city as if all the residents are real people with real lives, and those people would react accordingly.
-You can choose any aspect that you would want to have when you move to the city whether it be physical or non-physical. Anywhere from the architecture style, transportation options, how much it costs, to the culture of the place etc as long as it doesn't conflict with the above four rules.
If you love suburbia or rural living, what are any and all the conditions necessary for the city, the area where you'd move, has to have in order for you to feel like it is paradise or at the least a place that you'd at least consider moving to from a suburb or rural area where you live now?
Could you perhaps post an example? I mean, I see this on the Colorado forum occasionally, from the old timers who resent newbies moving into rural Colorado, but I've never seen it here on Urban Planning. I don't think we have any regular posters who live in rural areas.
Sorry, I should have been more clear: "this forum" meaning this site in general, not just the urban planning forum.
Density per se is not the issue for me. I just want enough space and privacy to be happy. I need:
- two car garage with one more parking spot
- enough space to have a workshop capable of running power tools
- space to have an outdoor cooking grill. Propane is fine.
- no one living above me.
- no shared walls.
- no elevator to get to where I live. Three flights of stairs is OK.
- I occasionally like to listen to loud music or watch movies in home theater mode. Prefer not to offend my neighbors if possible.
- taxes no higher than I pay now.
- I would also like the public schools in my area to be very good because even though my kids are now out of K-12, I want neighbors that would be happy to send their kids to public schools.
Interesting. I thought of these and came up with my list based on yours. Mine turned out totally different. I lived in New York and Madrid for many years and miss terribly the close proximity of people, friends, the constant get-togethers. It's uplifting.
- Some space on the street somewhere, or a little parking lot somewhere to park my car;
- Just enough space to entertain my family and friends;
- I'm not into outdoor cooking - Viva Italian and Spanish food! Yum!;
- I don't care if people live upstairs;
- I like row houses, brownstones, condos, and anything that creates great density of population, so joined walls are fine with me;
- I don't mind an elevator but I'd rather be on the first floor;
- I would rather have cafes and coffee shops downstairs to hang out at, and street parties, and friends I could sit with at the entrance of the building, homes, etc. and chat with, and people constantly dropping by, and places nearby to go dance and listen to music. I don't want to listen to loud music alone, just as I don't like drinking alone;
- Taxes are what keep the country from turning into a gigantic hovel;
- I opted not to have kids, so schools are not a big issue for me, though I'm not against sufficient taxation to make public schools good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
Density per se is not the issue for me. I just want enough space and privacy to be happy. I need:
- two car garage with one more parking spot
- enough space to have a workshop capable of running power tools
- space to have an outdoor cooking grill. Propane is fine.
- no one living above me.
- no shared walls.
- no elevator to get to where I live. Three flights of stairs is OK.
- I occasionally like to listen to loud music or watch movies in home theater mode. Prefer not to offend my neighbors if possible.
- taxes no higher than I pay now.
- I would also like the public schools in my area to be very good because even though my kids are now out of K-12, I want neighbors that would be happy to send their kids to public schools.
Density per se is not the issue for me. I just want enough space and privacy to be happy. I need:
- two car garage with one more parking spot
- enough space to have a workshop capable of running power tools
- space to have an outdoor cooking grill. Propane is fine.
- no one living above me.
- no shared walls.
- no elevator to get to where I live. Three flights of stairs is OK.
- I occasionally like to listen to loud music or watch movies in home theater mode. Prefer not to offend my neighbors if possible.
- taxes no higher than I pay now.
- I would also like the public schools in my area to be very good because even though my kids are now out of K-12, I want neighbors that would be happy to send their kids to public schools.
Inner-city Youngstown (my current house/neighborhood) fits the bill fairly well.
Here is where my neighborhood might fall short:
1. Taxes. There is a 2.75% city income tax, but my property taxes are about $850/yr.
2. Schools definitely fall short. The city schools are ranked very low. But, many of the surrounding districts have open enrollment.
Density per se is not the issue for me. I just want enough space and privacy to be happy. I need:
- two car garage with one more parking spot
- enough space to have a workshop capable of running power tools
- space to have an outdoor cooking grill. Propane is fine.
- no one living above me.
- no shared walls.
- no elevator to get to where I live. Three flights of stairs is OK.
- I occasionally like to listen to loud music or watch movies in home theater mode. Prefer not to offend my neighbors if possible.
- taxes no higher than I pay now.
- I would also like the public schools in my area to be very good because even though my kids are now out of K-12, I want neighbors that would be happy to send their kids to public schools.
I think you could find a lot of this in some detached-house residential neighborhoods that would still be rather urban in feel. Your desired features that would seem most difficult to find would involve the noisy activities. Using power tools, regardless of whether there was space to work, would likely disturb the neighbors if you worked outside in a small yard. If you had a basement workshop, that would be one way you could make it work in an urban residential neighborhood. A home theater in a finished basement would probably also be the only place where you might be able to listen to loud music without bothering the neighbors. If you did these activities outside of a basement, in order to avoid annoying the neighbors you'd probably need enough space around you so that the there's no way the character of the area would be considered urban by most people.
In some of the pictures below, few if any houses have garages. That would be your other criterion that might not always be met, but if you check out those photos, you can see how it might be possible to have a house with a two-car garage. The house would have to be somewhat larger than many of the houses in these pictures, but it would be possible in a neighborhood with roughly this density. Your choices might be very limited, though, so the garage would be the other feature that would be problematic.
2. Nice and relatively safe places for the kids to play and hang out.
3. Bike trails.
4. Water access.
5. Good neighbors.
6. Crime control.
7. Noise control.
8. Community amenities.
9. Clean air/streets/waterways.
10. Forests.
11. A patch of land to grow things.
12. Rational taxes.
13. Rational city officials
This assumes we are talking about a decent city with some life to it, shopping, pubs/taverns, a farmers market, public transportation, and the like. The postives of living in a City are many. The things above caused us to choose suburbs. In our current location thre are many more factors, but Detroit is a dysfunctional city so that does nto count in your hypothetical (few cities have 1-2 hour response times for fire/police emergencies, sporadic trash pick up, hundreds of thousands of collapsing empty buildings, etc. Still we seriously considered Detroit weighting the plusses and minuses. It was the things listed above theat ultimately tipped the scale, but it ws already tipping towards suburbs due ot the dysfunctional problems. The things listed above are things that you do not find as a whole in any US city.)
Last edited by Coldjensens; 06-14-2012 at 09:25 AM..
I think you could find a lot of this in some detached-house residential neighborhoods that would still be rather urban in feel. Your desired features that would seem most difficult to find would involve the noisy activities. Using power tools, regardless of whether there was space to work, would likely disturb the neighbors if you worked outside in a small yard. If you had a basement workshop, that would be one way you could make it work in an urban residential neighborhood. A home theater in a finished basement would probably also be the only place where you might be able to listen to loud music without bothering the neighbors. If you did these activities outside of a basement, in order to avoid annoying the neighbors you'd probably need enough space around you so that the there's no way the character of the area would be considered urban by most people.
In some of the pictures below, few if any houses have garages. That would be your other criterion that might not always be met, but if you check out those photos, you can see how it might be possible to have a house with a two-car garage. The house would have to be somewhat larger than many of the houses in these pictures, but it would be possible in a neighborhood with roughly this density. Your choices might be very limited, though, so the garage would be the other feature that would be problematic.
I could concede garage for a carport. I don't have a garage now, but if I were moving somewhere I really would like one.
Your pics above show some nice looking areas, and a few that aren't so nice. That chain link fence in the front is not very appealing. And with that much snow, I might not want one of my cars - which I would never drive in that kind of winter.
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