Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Mania? I don't understand what's so strange about it?
I think of it as a mania for low density in the postwar era. Nothing wrong with green space, and the traditional colleges often had quite a bit of green space. The "village green" model as eschaton mentioned seemed to work quite well. But if you have large tracts of green space it makes more annoying to walk to class, walk to meet other college students. And for many college students, walking is the only way they are getting around campus. The university I went to had plenty of green space without creating barriers.
I think the idea of having classrooms and dorms is unnecessary and could have unpleasant surprises.
I can use hyperbole once in a while, too! I just don't understand the passion, whatever you want to call it, for decreasing density across the board in every situation. Many of the small towns where some colleges are located have no shortage of land available, why do things like this:
Quote:
2. Made buildings setback from paths much more limited, so that they sat directly on "alleys" or at most were pushed back a few feet. As a result, classroom buildings could be set much closer together, and walking commutes shortened.
3. Kept green space to easily usable "parks" - perhaps with a New England "village green" model. In my experience, it's really only the green space directly around the campus centers which is used by students for recreation. The rest is just seen as an impediment to be trudged past.
Well, I can't use my university as an example, as it was in the heart of Pittsburgh. But many other colleges, including St. Olaf College where my older daughter went, have lost of green space which she never described as a barrier, either.
Some of us like seening green space; do not see it as an impediment.
As I look at some of the reasoning to cluster the buildings, or mix disparate uses, it starts to sound less like supposed smart planning and more like laziness.
Laziness should be part of the planning process! People are lazy, if you can take people's tendency to want things to be easy into account you can save a lot of time and trouble later. My favorite example on college campuses is the tendency for people to take shortcuts on spots that aren't walkways, resulting in a bare patch through landscaped grass areas. Only a particularly forward-thinking campus will actually take the step to notice that people take this path because it is logical and quick, and make it into a pedestrian path instead of trying to re-seed it and make people walk around it.
I can use hyperbole once in a while, too! I just don't understand the passion, whatever you want to call it, for decreasing density across the board in every situation. Many of the small towns where some colleges are located have no shortage of land available, why do things like this:
Well, I can't use my university as an example, as it was in the heart of Pittsburgh. But many other colleges, including St. Olaf College where my older daughter went, have lost of green space which she never described as a barrier, either.
Some of us like seening green space; do not see it as an impediment.
I meant a passion for increasing density, my apologies for not proof reading before I posted! Also "lots" of open space, not lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg
Laziness should be part of the planning process! People are lazy, if you can take people's tendency to want things to be easy into account you can save a lot of time and trouble later. My favorite example on college campuses is the tendency for people to take shortcuts on spots that aren't walkways, resulting in a bare patch through landscaped grass areas. Only a particularly forward-thinking campus will actually take the step to notice that people take this path because it is logical and quick, and make it into a pedestrian path instead of trying to re-seed it and make people walk around it.
It depends on the size of the campus. My university is pretty big with close to 30,000 students, so it's starting to reach the point where horizontal expansion would make it difficult to get to class in time. There's also a shortage of housing near campus.
My university was founded in the 60s, and the main building boom was in the 70s, with another building boom in the last decade or so. When it was founded, it was on farmland at the outskirts of a small city (Waterloo), not it is mostly surrounded by suburbia. It was built in a park like setting, with a ring road enclosing a pedestrian area where the academic and student life buildings are. The dorms are just outside the ring road. The typical building is 3 stories. The buildings built in the last decade were mostly in the green space although two were built in the parking lots West of the ring road. The arts buildings are clustered in the SW corner and the Science, Math and Engineering form the denser cluster in the East side. Within each cluster, the buildings are connected with under and above ground passages.
West of Ring Road are the affiliated colleges, which each have both residences and academic facilities. I'm not as familiar with that part of campus, but I think they are in different wings/buildings, but still next to each other. NW and SE are the residences, again "in the park" style, mostly 3-5 stories except for a couple of 10 story residences. North and Northeast is the technology park, home to Open Text, RIM and such. Most of the greenspace is not used much, except for a couple large fields and a rock garden. Otherwise, it's mostly the squares that get used, especially those with seating.
West of campus, probably around 50 apartment buildings have been built as off-campus student housing, here's what a typical one looks like:
What is with this mania for increased density, all the time? Good grief! What's wrong with a little, or a lot, of green space? What's wrong with the dorms and classrooms being separate, too? Not everyone wants to "live above the store". One of my daughters went to a college that required virtually all students to live in the dorms. They used to like to go into "town" to get out of the "bubble".
I think part of the reason why, at most schools, people want to get out of the dorms ASAP (the main exception being urban schools, where you're usually kicked out after 1-2 years) is because the dorms themselves are often awful places to live due to bad design. In some ways, when I commuted in by bike/bus as a grad student it was a shorter commute (in that despite living further from campus, the transit time was less than the time to walk to my classes would have been).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
I think the idea of having classrooms and dorms is unnecessary and could have unpleasant surprises.
Admittedly this is the part I'm least wedded to. Keep in mind this is something schools have experimented with, particularly "honors dorms" which have program colloquia within the buildings.
Perhaps an alternative would be, instead of the typical, mall-like "campus center" having classroom buildings set down a "main street" with the more public campus functions (campus bookstore, dining halls, meeting spaces) taking place on the bottom floors).
I still say there's no reason why, even if you don't want the classroom buildings interspaced with the dorms, you couldn't put the dorms immediately adjacent to the classroom buildings though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric
Why? They aren't even built like that in Europe, so your Europhile solution would logically be to build them like Universities in Europe. Ironically, that's pretty much how most US universities were built and the tradition is still strongly seen. One would think your Europhilean urges would be sated since they are modeled after bucolic universities such as Cambridge or Oxford.
"Oxbridge" are a special case, given they are so old. In continental Europe, all universities grew up within cities, so the American ideal of a pastoral setting is really unique.
One should also keep in mind that the older universities in the U.S., like Yale and Harvard, keep pretty closely to an urban format. Yes they are enmeshed within (smaller) cities, but they developed the dense, European-style building before their cities were all that big themselves. The result is much more walkable campuses than you see at most land-grant state universities.
I think part of the reason why, at most schools, people want to get out of the dorms ASAP (the main exception being urban schools, where you're usually kicked out after 1-2 years) is because the dorms themselves are often awful places to live due to bad design. In some ways, when I commuted in by bike/bus as a grad student it was a shorter commute (in that despite living further from campus, the transit time was less than the time to walk to my classes would have been).
Admittedly this is the part I'm least wedded to. Keep in mind this is something schools have experimented with, particularly "honors dorms" which have program colloquia within the buildings.
Perhaps an alternative would be, instead of the typical, mall-like "campus center" having classroom buildings set down a "main street" with the more public campus functions (campus bookstore, dining halls, meeting spaces) taking place on the bottom floors).
I still say there's no reason why, even if you don't want the classroom buildings interspaced with the dorms, you couldn't put the dorms immediately adjacent to the classroom buildings though.
"Oxbridge" are a special case, given they are so old. In continental Europe, all universities grew up within cities, so the American ideal of a pastoral setting is really unique.
One should also keep in mind that the older universities in the U.S., like Yale and Harvard, keep pretty closely to an urban format. Yes they are enmeshed within (smaller) cities, but they developed the dense, European-style building before their cities were all that big themselves. The result is much more walkable campuses than you see at most land-grant state universities.
Actually, the dorms at St. Olaf College where that daughter went are pretty nice, and their food is ranked very highly, a ranking with which I would agree. I still don't get your penchant for increasing density for no good reason. Small colleges don't have that many students to begin with, so their campuses aren't *that* large. Big land grant colleges just need a lot of space. I don't really think you'd want a dining hall or even a bookstore in the same building as classrooms. Most colleges I'm familiar with have dining halls in the dorms; they're already "densifying".
The land grant university that I am familiar with, the University of Illinois, is not unwalkable, considering the size of its student body.
Likewise, Davis campus is pretty walkable, despite being very spread out. Get a bike, it's how 57% of Davis residents attending or employed by UC Davis get to campus. Unless I was staying around the quad, biking from class to class was far faster than walking, so it's great for getting around on campus too. Another 21% ride the bus, 7% walk, and 12% drive alone and 3% carpool.
Here's what West Village looks like so far. It's a 5-10 minute bike ride to pretty much anywhere on campus. I haven't seen it in person yet, but from pictures it looks pretty bleh. Should be convenient once it's finished, however.
Overall, colleges, even outside of major cities, are highly dense, both structurally and in terms of population. They are also places where people primarily walk to get from building to building, possibly using a campus shuttle to a lesser extent as well depending upon how bad the weather is. At my own campus, unless you built up a high level of seniority within the dorms, you had to park your car in lots so remote from your dorm it was a 20-minute walk to get to it, making it a major hassle unless you wanted to go on a long-term trip over the weekend.
That said, virtually every campus I have ever been on which is not within a city proper is like a nightmare of postwar design. Roads are long and winding, and never set on a grid. Both dorms and classrooms are given wide setbacks from the street. Sometimes there are huge residential towers, but even these are isolated, in a "towers in the park" model. It's like traveling back in time to the haute urban design of the 1960s.
Obviously you can't raze whole campuses and start over again from scratch. But it strikes me that campuses are the one place in the U.S. where designing a pedestrian-only urban environment is possible without actually crimping the lifestyle of anyone.
Or maybe they are, and I'm just experiencing the worst. Surprise me.
Simple answer. "They" are not building any new colleges or universities anymore.
When they add another building, they generally try to have it harmonize with the existing buildings.
Most US universities were built in either the post colonial period, (think Harvard, Amherst MA) the turn of the century ( think Clark University, Worcester MA, Drexel in PA or much of Carnegie Melon) added to in the 20s - (first great wave of US college attendance) and added on to in the 20s. California's colleges were mostly built at this time in the no-coloniel Mediterranean style. Construction ended with the depression, and WWII.
Next wave would be post WWII, to accommodate returning Veterans from WWII and later, in the early 60s, first wave baby boomers.
Not sure where they house the office that is University of Phoenix.
Bet it looks really corporate.
One of the reasons for some of the differences between campuses (even the urban ones) and the type of urban design that would seem natural but isn't used is for protection and safety. Especially in buildings or parts of campuses that were built after the late 1950's through the 70's when large protest were very common on many campuses and often got very violent.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
