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It's not that much of a difference. Let's say the average transit user takes transit 40 times a month (20 workdays * 2 trips per day). $4 a boarding is $160 per month, and if they're paying $50, that's a $110 subsidy. Multiply that by 12 months and you get about $1,320 per year.
He probably meant $25 a month, which a decent number of small transit systems charge.
Here in NYC, our express buses (commuter buses) are generally more inefficient than our local buses. The express buses recover about 50% of their direct operating costs, whereas the local buses recover about 42%. (Then there are fixed costs like depot maintainance and everything that bring the FRR down to about 2/3 of that for each)
It's not that much of a difference. Let's say the average transit user takes transit 40 times a month (20 workdays * 2 trips per day). $4 a boarding is $160 per month, and if they're paying $50, that's a $110 subsidy. Multiply that by 12 months and you get about $1,320 per year.
But what if they have to transfer meaning 80 times a month? That's $1640. And a highly doubt they never take transit outside of going to work, running errands, catching up with friends, what have you.
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Here in NYC, our express buses (commuter buses) are generally more inefficient than our local buses. The express buses recover about 50% of their direct operating costs, whereas the local buses recover about 42%. (Then there are fixed costs like depot maintainance and everything that bring the FRR down to about 2/3 of that for each)
Recovering 50% of operating costs would be more efficient than recovering 42%, no?
He probably meant $25 a month, which a decent number of small transit systems charge.
Yes, I meant $25 per month. If you pay cash it's $1 per ride. A monthly pass is $25, quarterly pass is $70, and a yearly pass is $250. Passes and fares are about the same in my hometown as well, and both towns are around 80-110,000 in population. But the transit system here is actually pretty extensive, while in my hometown it's a fairly new system (2007) and extremely limited.
Here it's $104 for a monthly local pass or $50 for a weekly express pass (also valid on the local routes/subway). They used to have a monthly express pass, but not anymore.
I think in Denver, it's $2.25 for a single ride, right? Well, it's the same cost here (well, it's $2.50 if you're buying a single ride, but if you use a Pay-Per-Ride MetroCard, it's $2.25)
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Originally Posted by Malloric
1) But what if they have to transfer meaning 80 times a month? That's $1640. And a highly doubt they never take transit outside of going to work, running errands, catching up with friends, what have you.
2) Recovering 50% of operating costs would be more efficient than recovering 42%, no?
1) You shouldn't count transfers. It's not the person's fault that the agency's routes don't offer a direct ride (I'm not saying they necessarily should, but I'm just saying). I mean, sometimes there are cuts, and people have to transfer instead of taking a direct ride, but the cost of the agency didn't double just because they have to take 2 buses.
2) My mistake. I meant that the FRR is 80% on the local routes and about 50% on the express routes. But that's just the direct operating costs (things like fuel, variable maintainance, wages, etc). When you include overhead costs like depot maintainance, adminstrative costs, dispatchers, etc, it drops to about 42% for the local routes and 25% for the express routes.
We've had some service cuts, so the numbers are likely higher for both (though the local system got hit harder with the cuts, so its FRR would've improved more than the express system)
I'm not sure whether the 33% Katiana is referring to is the direct operating costs or the overhead costs (for her transit system).
He probably meant $25 a month, which a decent number of small transit systems charge.
My system is $45 / month. So is the transit pass in the upstate city I used to live in (both small systems) but has a decent ridership
My mother pays $299 / month.
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Here in NYC, our express buses (commuter buses) are generally more inefficient than our local buses.
Fares pay a higher percentage of NYC commuter rail and subway costs than buses, with commuter rail being the highest. I think the transit agency could raise the fares to cover close to all costs, but there would be a political uproar if it did so. The fares of rush hour commuter rail pays for its operating costs, but the off peak service is a money loser. So would eliminating some of the less used diesel routes to far flung suburbs, but they are also kept because of political pressure
If public transit is subsidized by taxes, and I'm a taxpayer, I'm not going to feel particularly guilty about using public transit--after all, my taxes paid for it!
I spend a lot less than $9000 a year for my car too--it's 22 years old and I paid cash for it a decade ago, I drive around 2000 miles a year, so I figure including insurance, gas, maintenance, parking and registration maybe $1500 a year. But my case is far from typical--most drivers drive more than me, even if their car is as cheap as mine. And yeah, that figure is an average--so, by definition, many people will pay less than that amount, and many will pay more.
For a forum that is supposedly so anti-car, I see a lot of pro-car posts here...maybe it's not all that anti-car?
If roads are subsidized by taxes, and I'm a taxpayer, I'm not going to feel particularly guilty about using roads--after all, my taxes paid for them!
There are a few anti-car people who have turned car ownership v non-ownership into a moral crusade. That's the problem.
Except you aren't "paying for it through your taxes" because the subsidy for public transportation in most areas comes not from General Fund taxation (income, sales, excise fees, etc.) but from the gas tax which is borne solely by vehicle owners. In states that levy a gas tax and are taking roads money from the General Fund one of two things have happened: they neglected road building and/or maintenence for years and they're now playing catch-up or the Governor/Legislature has raided the Highway Trust Fund for other things and are now faced with paying that money back or taking General Fund money for roads. Both of the above happened in MD.
In my area, public transportaion is supported by a special sales tax on people who buy things within the Regional Transit District (hence the name, RTD). Every consumer, every time they buy something, subsidizes public transportation.
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Originally Posted by pvande55
Actually they have discovered that maintaining rail systems can cost less than building and maintaining additional lanes of traffic which are unnecessary 20 hours a day. In many places there is no additional ROW to add new lanes so condemnation of property or double-decking, both very costly propositions, would be necessary. The Highway Trust Fund, which pays about half the cost of building roads, has been under some pressure since the gas tax hasn't been raised in decades and vehicles use less of it.
Oh, "they" have? I'd like to see some stats.
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Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13
Here it's $104 for a monthly local pass or $50 for a weekly express pass (also valid on the local routes/subway). They used to have a monthly express pass, but not anymore.
I think in Denver, it's $2.25 for a single ride, right? Well, it's the same cost here (well, it's $2.50 if you're buying a single ride, but if you use a Pay-Per-Ride MetroCard, it's $2.25)
I'm not sure whether the 33% Katiana is referring to is the direct operating costs or the overhead costs (for her transit system).
Yes, $2.25 for a single ride on a local route. A local route isn't necessarily a short route, it's one that makes a lot of stops.
I'm not sure either if the 33% means direct or direct and indirect costs. My educated guess would be direct costs.
Here is the fare schedule for commuter trains in my area. Each line is divided into five-mile zones. For example Zone H is 35 to 40 miles distant from the center (zone A). Train fares are required to cover 55% of the cost. In most cases the fare is less than the cost of gasoline used by a typical vehicle, and is even more economical if tolls or parking are involved. Tickets
How is it so cheap? Equivalent zone H for Long Island is $300 monthly, $9 one way.
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