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Old 06-12-2012, 03:52 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,555,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Actually doesn't sound too far fetched - of new housing permits obtained in 2011 in the Dallas metro area, 49% percent were for multi-family housing. I would imagine that the majority of that would be in Dallas itself, with some TOD here and there in the outer cities connected by LRT.

The Atlanta metro is at 28%, and the Houston metro is at 27%.

Of course when you compare it to the New York metro (91%) or even the Los Angeles metro (77%), you start to see why they are bashed as being "all sprawl".

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that these cities are accused of being "chain-based" - is that actually true? I imagined that even if the shops were in strip malls, they mostly be locally owned businesses.
This is the exact same post you made in another thread. It shows how little you know about these 3 cities. For one the 27% of multifamily housing in Houston is nearly 9k units (do the math) which is equal to Dallas or LA. Dallas was overbuilt on single family housing before the recession as was Atlanta which is why Dallas isn't building as much of it as Houston. Houston has a shortage in supply of SFH that's why it has more permits for SFH than Dallas, which had a vast supply in vacancy.

Look it up on google. Just type in "Dallas single family housing supply overbuilt" and "Houston supply short single family homes". LOL when I read something I look up its merits, only a uniformed person posts something they have little understanding of without any further evidence. You didn't even convert the percentages to actual numbers.

Dallas had a big inventory of SFH on the market therefore it doesn't need as many SFH building permits approved when it has to downsize its inventory. Houston has a shortage of SFH so it has more building permits for it. LOL it has nothing to do with their urban form, just their supply relative to demand.

Last edited by BLAXTOR; 06-12-2012 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,091 posts, read 82,438,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Why does Houston and Dallas get a pass with sprawl?
because everything is bigger in Texas
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,758,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR121 View Post
This is the exact same post you made in another thread. It shows how little you know about these 3 cities. For one the 27% of multifamily housing in Houston is nearly 9k units (do the math) which is equal to Dallas or LA. Dallas was overbuilt on single family housing before the recession as was Atlanta which is why Dallas isn't building as much of it as Houston. Houston has a shortage in supply of SFH that's why it has more permits for SFH than Dallas, which had a vast supply in vacancy.

Look it up on google. Just type in "Dallas single family housing supply overbuilt" and "Houston supply short single family homes". LOL when I read something I look up its merits, only a uniformed person posts something they have little understanding of without any further evidence. You didn't even convert the percentages to actual numbers.

Dallas had a big inventory of SFH on the market therefore it doesn't need as many SFH building permits approved when it has to downsize its inventory. Houston has a shortage of SFH so it has more building permits for it. LOL it has nothing to do with their urban form, just their supply relative to demand.
Sorry about giving my opinion (which I made clear it was). Like I said, I am not that familiar with the cities, which is why I used tentative language such as "I believe" and "in my opinion". I've been to all three cities but just short stays.

And through all this attack, I still cannot figure out what you are trying to say - Atlanta is more heavily developed than Dallas and Houston?
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,758,726 times
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From City Data:

Dallas:

Housing units in structures:

  • One, detached: 215,112
  • One, attached: 19,179
  • Two: 10,084
  • 3 or 4: 26,413
  • 5 to 9: 45,225
  • 10 to 19: 42,625
  • 20 to 49: 32,371
  • 50 or more: 86,994
  • Mobile homes: 5,639
  • Boats, RVs, vans, etc.: 411
Houston:

Housing units in structures:

  • One, detached: 364,905
  • One, attached: 42,105
  • Two: 16,323
  • 3 or 4: 32,534
  • 5 to 9: 46,999
  • 10 to 19: 64,550
  • 20 to 49: 38,334
  • 50 or more: 168,562
  • Mobile homes: 7,703
  • Boats, RVs, vans, etc.: 363
Atlanta:

Housing units in structures:

  • One, detached: 79,803
  • One, attached: 7,362
  • Two: 7,871
  • 3 or 4: 14,358
  • 5 to 9: 19,496
  • 10 to 19: 17,659
  • 20 to 49: 9,796
  • 50 or more: 29,723
  • Mobile homes: 810
  • Boats, RVs, vans, etc.: 1

About 45% of Dallas is SFH, about 46% of Houston is SFH, 43% of Atlanta is SFH. I know this isn't the end-all be-all stat for sprawl (lot size is pretty key), but these cities are all about the same in this regard.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:03 PM
 
4,819 posts, read 6,043,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
There isn't a solidly urban core in any of these three cities, which is why they probably get bashed for being sprawly.

I'm looking forward to the rebuttle as to why any of these three cities has a solidly urban core, but instead of focusing on that, you COULD be discussing how your suburban areas are denser than most cities in the country and there is SOME urban renewal going on as well......we'll see.
Well here it goes

I believe it's the opposite posters on these threads no nothing about the actual cities of Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas their history, their culture, their neighborhoods... nothing. Sprawl is related to suburbs we are already taking about their suburbs, their suburbs sprawl on the other hand there actually cores are like Denver or denser, in which Denver is a city who's core is never bash which shows the hypocrisy right there. These cities get bashed because posters think their suburbs are them and there cores are ignored again posters can't even name neighborhoods in there cores.

Houston: Montrose & Midtown Townhome Madness
I much rather learn neighborhoods in these core with history and culture, then discuss there suburbs that the problem that's not gaining or learning about there cities.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:40 PM
Status: "Back home again." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
52,568 posts, read 47,690,485 times
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Default Re: Why Do Houston And Dallas Get A Pass With Sprawl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post
What is the deal. When did Dallas and Houston become urban?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Many folks are moving here (to Texas) for a lot of reasons, all of them good.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
4,418 posts, read 6,230,778 times
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It just depends on how you look at things. Dallas and Houston are both more densely developed (commercial, residential, etc) than Atlanta over a much larger area. After you leave Atlanta's core the development style drops very fast.

In Dallas, you have Downtown and Uptown right up against each other while in Atlanta the distance from the heart of downtown to the heart of Midtown is a bit more spread out. You also have a cluster in Dallas of Downtown, Uptown/Victory Park, Oak Lawn, Knox-Henderson, Deep Ellum, etc. in a tight radius around the core. Each of these areas rarely have many single family homes which can even be found in large numbers in the Midtown area of Atlanta and. Imagine if Atlantic Station had been built right in Midtown rather than across the freeway.

I just think the development style in the big Texas cities is a lot more California than it is Piedmont. As you find a defined grid with wide thoroughfares, larger range of multi-family housing, alleyways and more extensive freeway systems.

I will say as Austin gets larger I think it will grow a lot more in the fashion of the Atlanta area than it will of it's instate siblings.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:11 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,143,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post

About 45% of Dallas is SFH, about 46% of Houston is SFH, 43% of Atlanta is SFH. I know this isn't the end-all be-all stat for sprawl (lot size is pretty key), but these cities are all about the same in this regard.
I assume these numbers are city proper.

A much smaller percentage of the Atlanta metro's population lives in the city proper than in the other metros (particularly Houston) so as a whole, they're less similar than the numbers suggest.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,758,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I assume these numbers are city proper.

A much smaller percentage of the Atlanta metro's population lives in the city proper than in the other metros (particularly Houston) so as a whole, they're less similar than the numbers suggest.
Yes just cities alone. It's pretty obvious from Atlanta's smaller numbers in every category that a great deal of its metro lives outside city limits.

I would think the percentage of SFHs would increase if Atlanta's borders were extended to something closer to the Texas cities.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
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The Urbanized area and density of it are pretty telling - both DFW and Houston are like 50% more dense when compared to Atlanta, which I believe among the 10/11 largest MSAs is the lowest density by a decent margin

Also just by feel Atlanta is most spread.

I will caveat that to the open space isnt all that bad as continuous 3-5K development to me is possible the worst of both worlds but on feel and time in both would think Atlanta has the most space sparwaled with lowest density of the majors - though there are examples all over the US and in basically every metro
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