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Old 07-18-2012, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
2,975 posts, read 4,937,891 times
Reputation: 1227

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If there is a "War on Cars," the cars seem to be winning. Because there are still way too many pedestrian and cyclist deaths, and many of them are hit-and-runs. In Miami, people get killed by cars while walking on the SIDEWALK or waiting at a BUS SHELTER, and it has to end!

If motorists would just obey existing rules of the road and respect cyclists and pedestrians as fellow humans, maybe there wouldn't be as much animosity. Let's start with stopping behind the line at a red light and letting people in a marked crosswalk cross before turning right. Sure, you get some cyclists who ignore red lights and pedestrians who jaywalk, but they don't kill people in the process!!!
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: West Cedar Park, Philadelphia
1,225 posts, read 2,565,963 times
Reputation: 693
I would argue that the interstate highway system was a war on trains.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:51 PM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,798,329 times
Reputation: 21922
Where I live, you never see people biking for transporation reasons. Just people out riding for exercise and/or fun in those skin tight spandex togs. When it comes to getting to work, they're in their cars just like everyone else.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:54 PM
 
Location: USA
1,543 posts, read 2,956,220 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
I don't like driving those dinky little economy cars on american roads. they tend to have a harsh bumpy ride, poor speed and acceleration, loud whiny engines, etc. they are fine going at low speeds, but at higher speeds they become quite loud and uncomfortable. which gets old fast. they really struggle at freeway speeds. all that discomfort isn't worth it imo.

if you're driving on US roads you're going to want to trade up to a bigger more comfortable vehicle as soon as you can. american roads just arent compatible or designed for economy cars. they are designed for big cars with large powerful gas guzzling engines so everyone can be traveling at near race-car speeds when they aren't stuck in rush hour.

in addition there's a social stigma if you drive an ecomony car. if you're not driving a big suv or expensive foreign luxury car then people will look down on you. the car you drive is a status symbol. unfortunate but we do live in a very status-conscious, superficial culture and society.
Then don't complain about $3.50 per gallon since you obviously are choosing to drive a gas guzzler. And social stigma? What is this junior high?
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:05 PM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,896,239 times
Reputation: 9251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy View Post
I would argue that the interstate highway system was a war on trains.
You could argue that but by the time most were completed the trains were mainly gone. Railroads had dropped most of the trains you could actually ride. But planners believed the new freeways could absord almost unlimited traffic.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:35 PM
 
986 posts, read 2,507,173 times
Reputation: 1449
Default Not all drivers are pure "motorists"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
Full article here:

Motorists To Urban Planners: Stay In Your Lane : NPR

I get the impression that motorists feel that those in favor in walkability and alternative forms of transit don't want them being able to use their cars. From my personal experience, I often hear motorists openly stating their disregard and unwillingness to share the road with cyclists. Biking happens to be my main form of transportation and twice I've been hit by cars while riding on the sidewalk. I happened to be on the sidewalk and cross walk when they happened because the roads were both busy 24/7 and there weren't any bike lanes. As a result I couldn't do anything since by law I was supposed to be on the road. Fortunately I wasn't injured severely and my insurance could cover everything, but I was then I would have been out out of luck since cars have the clear advantage in both cases despite the cars posing the bigger threat.
Arrogant motorists would be more descriptive. One can be a reluctant motorist (in the context of the negatives) but still need to drive, anyhow.

I'd like to see more birth control as a root cause solution. Urban planning strikes me as a pyramid scheme industry, based on the mindless assumption of never ending growth in human numbers. It's similar to the need for more police and prisons, when the ideal would be zero crime. There are some moral-disconnects in those professions.

Some projections show the U.S. reaching a depressing 1 billion people by 2100, though it's unclear how many in that horde would be able to afford cars, or what cars will even look like.

The endless coddling of of growth as a sacred cow just needs to end. We can't survive much longer in a finite world with a debt/consumption-based economy. Peak Oil is already forcing the growth machine to downsize, which we wouldn't fight if we were intelligent.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:42 PM
 
986 posts, read 2,507,173 times
Reputation: 1449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
I don't like driving those dinky little economy cars on american roads. they tend to have a harsh bumpy ride, poor speed and acceleration, loud whiny engines, etc. they are fine going at low speeds, but at higher speeds they become quite loud and uncomfortable. which gets old fast. they really struggle at freeway speeds. all that discomfort isn't worth it imo.

if you're driving on US roads you're going to want to trade up to a bigger more comfortable vehicle as soon as you can. american roads just arent compatible or designed for economy cars. they are designed for big cars with large powerful gas guzzling engines so everyone can be traveling at near race-car speeds when they aren't stuck in rush hour.

in addition there's a social stigma if you drive an ecomony car. if you're not driving a big suv or expensive foreign luxury car then people will look down on you. the car you drive is a status symbol. unfortunate but we do live in a very status-conscious, superficial culture and society.
When was the last time you actually drove a smaller car? Many are becoming a lot more refined. Others prefer the better handling and road feel of smaller cars to floating on a marshmallow.

I'd like to see car rental companies stop touting poorer MPG as an "upgrade." Efficiency is something to be proud of, not waste. You can get many luxury features in compact cars, and you can manage to survive without every possible gadget on hand.

Any social stigma associated with small cars seems like old news, and would apply to superficial people anyhow. I'd put the stigma on gluttony and denial of Peak Oil. Gas-guzzler drivers need to learn some petroleum geology, especially the very real concept of EROEI.

Last edited by ca_north; 07-19-2012 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,486,569 times
Reputation: 9263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
Some projections show the U.S. reaching a depressing 1 billion people by 2100, though it's unclear how many in that horde would be able to afford cars, or what cars will even look like.
Lol i wouldnt be too worried about the year 2100
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,694,120 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
Arrogant motorists would be more descriptive. One can be a reluctant motorist (in the context of the negatives) but still need to drive, anyhow.

I'd like to see more birth control as a root cause solution. Urban planning strikes me as a pyramid scheme industry, based on the mindless assumption of never ending growth in human numbers. It's similar to the need for more police and prisons, when the ideal would be zero crime. There are some moral-disconnects in those professions.

Some projections show the U.S. reaching a depressing 1 billion people by 2100, though it's unclear how many in that horde would be able to afford cars, or what cars will even look like.

The endless coddling of of growth as a sacred cow just needs to end. We can't survive much longer in a finite world with a debt/consumption-based economy. Peak Oil is already forcing the growth machine to downsize, which we wouldn't fight if we were intelligent.
That sounds like bull. The birth rate is currently below replacement in the US, and immigration is down due to the recession.

No one predicted the drop birthrates in Europe or Japan, either.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:13 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,950,217 times
Reputation: 2938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
What about adding in maintenance, insurance, and car payments? As your car gets older you're going to start paying more to mainain it and your insurance could go up. Gas prices isn't going to remain static as they fluctuate throughout the year peaking in the summer. Alternatively it's cheaper to buy a 30 day metro pass provided you live in a walkable environment.

exactly. people act as if fuel costs were the only expense of car ownership. cars don't grow on trees. the car fairy doesn't hand them out like candy every easter. they aren't free. nor is their insurance and the endless costs of maintaining them (changing the oil, coolant, tune-ups, etc). they are a huge financial burden, second only to your rent or mortgage. in many cases when you add up all the costs of car ownership it can easily be as much as your monthly rent.

in addition you're paying hundreds every year just to re-register the damn thing because the registration is only good for one year. they also have to be smogged every two years which also costs money. and god forbid you fail the smog test because that's going to be another several hundred dollars you will have to fork out to fix it so it can pass smog. and god forbid you get pulled over for a moving violation which goes on your driving record causing your insurance premiums to double. or god forbid you lose your job and aren't unable find another one right away. cause if you miss a monthly payment or two the finance company will begin proceedings to repo your car. the headaches of car ownership just never ends.
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