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Same as the US, but the US has large sections of the country that can't support forests. As to being incredibly dense, parts are, but subregions of the US (especially where people live) may have similar densities. France has the same population density as Pennsylvania. Massachusetts is denser overall.
While of course Europe was developed before the US, except for the oldest sections of cities, most cities were built up in the 19th and early 20th century. And Europe has built newer development in the last century, where the majority of residents now live. With far less strip malls, though they do have big box centers as I showed above.
Well, fine. The parts of Germany I saw, in western Germany, bordering the Netherlands, were more like the Netherlands, with its 8.79%. I believe that part in the bold is incorrect. I saw plenty of buildings from before 1800 while there. It is true that western Europe and parts of the UK were re-built after WW II, because they had been bombed.
Re: Bolded, I don't think that's true, though it obviously depends on the city. While the centers of Eureopean may be very old, most of the population and buildings are not from that era. Europe was mostly rural in the 18th century; population growth and urbanization was high in the 19th (and the 20th for some countries). Europe also had a baby boom postwar like the US, though not as high. Hard to find stats on when places were built but population levels should give a decent estimate. Let's look at Paris. As a capital city, it was already large by the end of the 18th century.
Population at the end of the 1700s: around 630,000
Population early 20th century (just before WWI): 4,500,000
by the then the urban growth had spilled past the city limits (annexation wasn't permitted), so I'm using the urban area population
Population at end of World War II: 5.8 million
using 1936 population, because that's what the area was built for at the time.
Present day population: 10.4 million
So, about 44% of development postwar, 6% pre-1800. Notice the city proper population has declined (most of it postwar). Cities were more crowded then, and for Paris, working-class families got replaced by well off childless adults, so my guess is the population numbers underestimate how much was built up.
And Paris is one of the older large European cities. Many other, more industrial cities were tiny or didn't exist in the early 1800s. Philadelphia was the second biggest city in the British Empire at the time of the revolution! Manchester followed Boston's population history in the 19th century. Hasn't grown at all in the last 100 years, for similar Pittsburgh hasn't grown in the last few decades (though the city declined and the suburbs grew so new development was required). The parts of London I'm most familiar with date to the first half of the 20th century.
For Amsterdam, the old 17-18th century center area by the canals doesn't reflect where most live, probably 15-20% at most.
[I would like to exclude logging in this thread such as the rainforest and the forests of asia since they tear that down for logging purposes]
Why does the US tear down acres and acres of land just to rebuild acres and acres of sprawling strip malls and suburbs? Is this only a US thing? I have never been to Asia but in Europe this phenomena is not the case. Why does this happen here, it upsets me as I would rather look at a nice natural landscape than acres of Subways and Applebees.
Thanks
For the same reason they di it to creat the urban areas like Maimi. Alos why the decided to put people i such placea as new oralens and then detroy the marsh aroud it to support eh city or fill in bays in mnay palces with garbage and sewage. Poeple like what they like.otehrwise we would not be poutting up all thspo sky scrpaers that block the sunlight or mass transposrt to concentrate pollution. One only has to go to china to see what massing people in a concentrated area does on a day you can see every far ;that is. But then it seems people are not satisfied when they can escape urban problems as with any such thing.Once where there were tress to see we now build sky scrapers that block the sunlight and pout concrte that that the air long into the night hours.
Free enterprise, not government telling you how you are allowed to use your land. Let's not forget municipal incentives. A forest on the edge of the city limits doesn't bring in many tax dollars. Commercial property does. However, should the city be allowed to subsidize some of the development cost in the expectation of revenue?
Some individual suburbs MAY have grown, but more shrunk. The steel industry started faltering, then crashed in the early 80s. Young adults left in droves, leaving the old folks behind.
Developers are our centuries Red Death or Black Plague.
Strip Malls are an A to Z compendium of everything we do wrong politically and infrastructurally as a country. Long after the anchor store of the latest JUNK*MART / stripmall is gone, the gift that keeps giving -- the zoning change -- keeps giving.
Free enterprise, not government telling you how you are allowed to use your land. Let's not forget municipal incentives. A forest on the edge of the city limits doesn't bring in many tax dollars. Commercial property does. However, should the city be allowed to subsidize some of the development cost in the expectation of revenue?
There are higher moral obligations than profit. We are only temporary, land is forever. Passing it on the way we got it is a moral obligation. That we wreck it for quick and cheap financial gain is one of the USA's more reprehensible (un)qualities.
"Free Enterprise" is not free. Ive been to enough zoning hearings to know the developers of these abominations always work out (i.e. "buy") as much free stuff as they can during the planning and vote stages of the assault. Free for them, not so for the taxpayers left with the ensuing mess.
There are higher moral obligations than profit. We are only temporary, land is forever. Passing it on the way we got it is a moral obligation. That we wreck it for quick and cheap financial gain is one of the USA's more reprehensible (un)qualities.
"Free Enterprise" is not free. Ive been to enough zoning hearings to know the developers of these abominations always work out (i.e. "buy") as much free stuff as they can during the planning and vote stages of the assault. Free for them, not so for the taxpayers left with the ensuing mess.
There are so many opportunities in the US for an environmentally responsible redevelopment renaissance. It would fit in perfectly with our goal of becoming energy independent and reducing our reliance on petroleum.
Renovating buildings to take advantage of existing energy-saving design and products coupled with a new smart grid supported by alternative energy sources, as well as thoughtful enterprise zones connected to 21st-Century transit systems, would go a long way toward preserving our natural resources and improving our quality of life.
Many of these opportunities, if tied to a national domestic goal, could be the catalyst for economic growth that could reverse our stagnant/declining standard of living.
Developers are our centuries Red Death or Black Plague.
Strip Malls are an A to Z compendium of everything we do wrong politically and infrastructurally as a country. Long after the anchor store of the latest JUNK*MART / stripmall is gone, the gift that keeps giving -- the zoning change -- keeps giving.
Oh, for G*d's sake! It's hard to have a rational discussion when people post stuff like that!
Oh, for G*d's sake! It's hard to have a rational discussion when people post stuff like that!
And conversely, I would say it's impossible to have a discussion on urban planning with those who dont.
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