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Nope. It's a well known fact that rural America is nowhere near as diverse as urban America. Apparently you fail to understand this.
[/quote]I'll tell that to some friends who live out in the country and run apple orchards and small farms. Won't they be surprised.[/quote]
They might be more surprised if it showed up in the town paper that a sizeable group of Pakistani Muslims, Thai Buddhists, Chinese, Koreans, blacks, and Mexicans were planning to build new homes in that town and move there. The hairs on the back of those apple farmers' necks might stand up straight!
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
Wasn't the first women's rights convention in Seneca Falls, N.Y.? Weren't both Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton living in rural New York during the height of their activism?
If you notice I never said anything about where the people who were involved in the advancement of civil rights hailed from. What I said was that the movements THEMSELVES wer largely driven by the urban areas, with rural areas dragging up the rear in accepting them as the new societal norm. One modern example is that you'll probably find more acceptance of interracial couples in urban America than in rural America. Rural America simply moves at a snail's pace when it comes to social advances/getting up to modern reality.
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
One election doesn't mean squat.
And 2012 wasn't the first time this was noticed. CNN has election maps for multiple presidential elections, and guess what- the same trend is in them too. The trend was there when Obama got elected the first time, when W got elected the 2nd time, when W got elected the first time. Rural America is by and large red, and urban America is by and large blue, and that didn't just happen in 2012. Deny the reality if you wish. That would be a typical rural mindset.
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
You cannot draw any other conclusion, because these results do not tell you how people voted in their congressional election or school district bond issue or anything else about their lives.
Actually you CAN draw the conclusion I draw, especially since the presidential election is the one election where all Americans are voting on the same exact thing. But heck, look even at the House of Representatives, and you'll find more Democrats dominating the urban districts and Republicans dominating the rural districts.
No point trying to deny the reality that rural America is largely read and urban America is largely blue. Cities make people more likely to be more liberal.
If you want to draw fallacious conclusions, have at it. But don't think they're correct.
You don't think that rural areas tend to be more conservative and urban areas tend to be more liberal?
Seems to be pretty plainly obvious to me, and I have lots of experience in rural, urban and semi-urban / rural areas (my hometown itself is urban but surrounded by rural areas). Generally rural areas are more conservative and urban areas are more liberal - there is a reason the GOP is facing a serious identity crisis and are going to have a hard time winning a national election going forward if they do not do more to court urban areas. There are natural conservatives within urban areas but the GOP has done nothing but alienate them, and it appears they are going to continue down that path. Maybe 2016 will teach them, as these trends are only going to "worsen".
Seems to be pretty plainly obvious to me, and I have lots of experience in rural, urban and semi-urban / rural areas (my hometown itself is urban but surrounded by rural areas). Generally rural areas are more conservative and urban areas are more liberal - there is a reason the GOP is facing a serious identity crisis and are going to have a hard time winning a national election going forward if they do not do more to court urban areas. There are natural conservatives within urban areas but the GOP has done nothing but alienate them, and it appears they are going to continue down that path. Maybe 2016 will teach them, as these trends are only going to "worsen".
A large part of it is demographics. Minorities tend to have different voting patterns than whites. For examples, if you look at New York State and only look at the white vote, much of Long Island and other outer suburbs voted no more Democrat than rural upstate NY (excluding the western third of the state). Inner suburbs seem a bit more Democrat but it's partly because of high % of non-orthodox Jewish voters — who have voting patterns more similar to hispanice or asians (historically more Democratic) than other white voters. The Democrat-voting patterns of urban white is partially exagerrated because those without children tend to vote a bit more Democrat.
Statewide, the contrast in voting patterns among minorities was much less.
A large part of it is demographics. Minorities tend to have different voting patterns than whites. For examples, if you look at New York State and only look at the white vote, much of Long Island and other outer suburbs voted no more Democrat than rural upstate NY (excluding the western third of the state). Inner suburbs seem a bit more Democrat but it's partly because of high % of non-orthodox Jewish voters — who have voting patterns more similar to hispanice or asians (historically more Democratic) than other white voters. The Democrat-voting patterns of urban white is partially exagerrated because those without children tend to vote a bit more Democrat.
Statewide, the contrast in voting patterns among minorities was much less.
Similar to how parts of Orange County and the South Bay vote conservative. I agree demographics play a role in the contrast. Hispanics in the urban / rural blend of my hometown still typically vote Democratic though I wouldn't call them liberal really at all <--- Republicans stop isolating them, they would vote for you if you weren't such idiots!
Again I have to stress there is a serious disconnect between Republican / conservative citizens and Republican / conservative politicians and the party at large.
Similar to how parts of Orange County and the South Bay vote conservative. I agree demographics play a role in the contrast. Hispanics in the urban / rural blend of my hometown still typically vote Democratic though I wouldn't call them liberal really at all <--- Republicans stop isolating them, they would vote for you if you weren't such idiots!
Again I have to stress there is a serious disconnect between Republican / conservative citizens and Republican / conservative politicians and the party at large.
these exit polls might be useful. New York hispanic appear more liberal than Californian ones.
If you want to draw fallacious conclusions, have at it. But don't think they're correct.
Everybody except you seems willing to accept that the urban vote is more Democratic and the rural vote is more Republican. Even the thread title supports this and simply asks for causality. But to each his own. There may be those somewhere who still believe the earth is flat too. But personal blindfolders don't trump multiple election cycles' worth of electoral maps just like they don't trump earth shots from space.
MantaRay - From your paradigm I can understand that viewpoint. Flip it around and think about it from the rural perspective.
"Bottom line, cities bring a perspective and a diversity and a life experience that simply cannot be found in rural America. "
That can easily be flipped around and be stated that rural America can bring perspective and a diversity of life experience that simply cannot be found in the city as well. Isn't the exact definition of diversity supported by mixed experiences regardless of where they are in fact experienced?
I could argue in a rural community someone may learn true self sufficiency and self motivation as no one may be there to support you until you show some investment of energy and motivation. That experience is vastly different than an urban environment with shelters etc.
Also, where in the city can someone really learn about self sustaining food culture? A classroom? BS, go do it, live it, respect it. Obviously those are just some examples.....
Your post seems to embody some of the passive righteousness of thought and world view that tends to be a conversation stopper when it comes to the views of rural Americans. The assumption in your post appears to be that everyone in the bread basket should place the same value on funding of the arts and "programs" utilized predominately in urban environments and if they don't, they are just closed minded Neanderthals. That is a very elitist view of the world, don't you think?
I was with you until you spoke on self sustaining food culture. This is something the media doesn't talk about, and does not give the cities enough credit for. When the cities were not as dense as they became in the 50s people had gardens and grew their own crops within the city, not just out in the country. There may not have been any livestock, but vegetables were grown. Now that areas of some Northern cities are becoming rural again; Detroit, Philadelphia, Cleveland, etc. you are beginning to see urban farming in some of the same neighborhoods that weren't good for much of anything.
Also, it is nothing for farms to continue to exist in Southern cities that aren't as dense, in spite of criticism about surburban sprawl, etc. It might not be self sustaining food culture from a purely rural/country point of view, but it does exist and for a vegetarian, could be a viable alternative to grocery stores.
I was with you until you spoke on self sustaining food culture. This is something the media doesn't talk about, and does not give the cities enough credit for. When the cities were not as dense as they became in the 50s people had gardens and grew their own crops within the city, not just out in the country. There may not have been any livestock, but vegetables were grown. Now that areas of some Northern cities are becoming rural again; Detroit, Philadelphia, Cleveland, etc. you are beginning to see urban farming in some of the same neighborhoods that weren't good for much of anything.
Also, it is nothing for farms to continue to exist in Southern cities that aren't as dense, in spite of criticism about surburban sprawl, etc. It might not be self sustaining food culture from a purely rural/country point of view, but it does exist and for a vegetarian, could be a viable alternative to grocery stores.
I didn't make my original point with regards to that issue clearly and I decided to not to revisit it as it wasn't really worth the energy at the time. Trust me, I get the urban gardens, eben to a couple, nice to see.
The original point I wanted to make was more about understanding the mindset of the folks whose life and livelihood depend on growing their food for themselves and/or market. The ones for whom it is not a novelty or grand experiment or a better option vs. Whole Foods. It was more around understanding why those people place value on different parts of life that the majority of the urbanites may not. That paradigm obviously colors how they vote, how they view the world etc.
Some here would call them unenlightened etc. and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
You don't think that rural areas tend to be more conservative and urban areas tend to be more liberal?.
Tend to, yes. As an absolute, no, because first off there are many definitions of conservative and liberal; secondly, because, contrary to the blatherings of some folks, not everyone can be painted with the same brush based solely upon where they live.
What about suburban areas? Mixed bag?
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