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Old 12-29-2012, 10:05 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
Oh I see now; 16th st. mall is the location of the multilevel mall. 16th st. mall is not a mall in the traditional sense, but it has a lot of retail, as well as mall. The "mall" in the way it is used here, is more about the experience, as though it were a lifestyle center just woven into an existing downtown, not meant to be taken literally.

But what is the name of the multilevel mall itself though? I didn't get that information from the wiki.
Denver Pavilions
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The only indoor mall I can think of in Manhattan is a small one. There's a lot of shopping in the surrounding area at street level, but the mall itself has little:

Manhattan Mall - Store Listing

Maybe the mall is at a bit of a disadvantage because you won't notice all the stores walking by on the street. Elsewhere in the city, there's a mall by Downtown Brooklyn (with a Target) and more typical suburban-looking one in Queens (haven't been to that one). Both charge for parking, the Brooklyn one is built on top of a railroad station and subway line junction.
Are the shops at Columbus circle indoor?

The Shops at Columbus Circle - NYC Shopping | Time Warner Center

Another interesting complex is in the Bronx, the stores are not connected indoors, but it is built as a mid-rise.

http://www.bronxterminalmarket.com/Pages/Default.aspx
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:20 AM
 
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Sometimes malls are built in rural areas where residential development is expected. The strategy is "Find out where everyone is going and get there first." Of course in recent years that often failed.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:45 PM
 
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I don't really know of any rural malls myself, only the outlets like you speak about which where I live are on the Outer Banks and Williamsburg which are both high tourist areas.

I too am suprised that VA Beach has only 2 malls. Pembroke is more of a neighborhood mall imo and Lynnhaven was been touted as a regional mall. I read once that Lynnhaven attracts 50k per day but not sure if this is still correct. And yes VB has more strip malls than I could ever count. And I notice they fix up the older ones and sometimes even add on to them. A good example is on the Blvd between Lynnhaven Rd and Lynnhaven Pkwy. Funny if you look at this old google map there are actually adding on. Hilarious.

frame shop virginia beach - Google Maps (click on street view)

At the same time they were building another strip mall just down the street.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8...=A&gl=US&hl=en

Last edited by citydweller; 12-30-2012 at 09:13 PM..
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydweller View Post
I don't really know of any rural malls myself, only the outlets like you speak about which where I live are on the Outer Banks and Williamsburg which are both high tourist areas.

I too am suprised that VA Beach has only 2 malls. Pembroke is more of a neighborhood mall imo and Lynnhaven was been touted as a regional mall. I read once that Lynnhaven attracts 50k per day but not sure if this is still correct. And yes VB has more strip malls than I could ever count. And I notice they fix up the older ones and sometimes even add on to them. A good example is on the Blvd between Lynnhaven Rd and Lynnhaven Pkwy. Funny if you look at this old google map there are actually adding on. Hilarious.

frame shop virginia beach - Google Maps (click on street view)

At the same time they were building another strip mall just down the street.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8...=A&gl=US&hl=en
Yeah that street view is funny. But that was typical of Virginia Beach when those images were shot.

Pembroke, they are refacing the front; might be getting rid of the food court, or may be giving it a face lift. Something to make it more "urban". I rarely go into Pembroke though. They got rid of the gas station in front of Pembroke and replaced it with an urban WalGreens. They also gutted the movie theater and threw a Target back there. Pembroke really needs to turn into a multilevel mall, but I don't ever see that happening.

Lynnhaven still gets a lot of foot traffic, but then again, it is the only real mall in Virginia Beach.

Town Center, as a lifestyle center, is the closest to a third mall Virginia Beach has, right across the street from Pembroke. I doubt Virginia Beach will get another mall; they'll expand Town Center, throw in light-rail and build a stadium before building any more malls around here.

The mall in Hampton was demolished and replaced with a lifestyle center; Peninsula Town Center.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
There may be a formula for it. It was not unusual for the amount of malls a city has, to equal about one mall per 100,000 people. That was of course at their peak in the 80s/90s. These days a large city may only have one or two malls, with the rest of the retail sustained through strip malls and lifestyle centers. Plus, a lot of those malls are either dead malls, or closed down, due to their proximity to the "ghetto" low-income suburban areas they support.

I know in Ohio it was nothing for a large city like Cleveland or Cincinnati to have four, five, six malls or more. But lifestyle centers have taken over, and a lot of those indoor malls have closed. Where I grew up in Akron we had 3 malls, and less than 300,000 people. That didn't last long though; one of those malls have closed, for the exact reason I mentioned in the previous paragraph, same thing happened out in suburban Cleveland.

In fact, when I came to Hampton Roads I thought it was odd that cities like Virginia Beach only had one or two malls, given their population. But now I understand it; there are enough strip malls, lifestyle centers, and detached stores around here you really do not need four or five malls per city. That seems to be an older, outdated concept.
I think you are right. Some malls have failed due to the urban decay where malls that were centered in inner city suburbs, and as Caucasians fled out to newer suburban housing the malls closer to the old houses which were filled by new less wealthy residents lead to dead malls.

However, like in my city, the city leadership and the mall were able to keep enough people coming to the one nice part of downtown for reasons like the nicest movie theater in town and the clothing stores.

The city itself has 100,000 population but the area draws 150,000 population in a 15 minute drive. Not to mention it's the only enclosed mall around, so rather people like it or not they have to go to the enclosed mall for clothes or the outlet mall. But people tend to go the enclosed mall because it's food court is good, it's busier, and the selection is better.

I know most counties in CA have malls have at least 100,000 population within a 15-20 minute drive.

Outlet malls in CA seem to draw from a population less than 100,000 population and rely on no other outlet malls nearby and tourists from a freeway. The outlet mall near me was a Prime Outlet, but it's now a Premium Outlet.

As for malls in rural areas, Bayshore Mall in Eureka (28,000 population) is the closest I can think of. It's an ex-urban area that used to be more rural. It's anchored by JcPenney's, Kohl's, and Wal-Mart.

Then there is the old county I used to live in. When San Luis Obispo had less than 30,000 population and less than 100,000 population within a 15 minute drive, we had an enclosed mall with a Gottschalk's and Embassey Suites. We didn't have enough population for Sear's at that time, and JCPenney's was downtown. That mall was in a good suburban area, but competition from big box centers and a funky college downtown in sunny CA weather led people to not shop at the mall. The mall developer was going to have JCPenney's locate at the mall, but the city decided to deny JCPenney's permit for the second department store, so the mall was sold to a new company where they converted the mall into another big box center. The county is still pretty rural. The biggest town is at 45,000 population and the area towns are so far apart that you don't have 100,000 population within 15 minutes.

I also find the rural malls (enclosed malls) are located in small towns with harsher weather conditions much as is the mall in Eureka and some small malls I know in the mid-west.

I also have found lifestyle centers are being located in tourist areas with lower populations and high concentrations of wealthy people. Most of the time, it's a small lifestyle center (no bigger than 150,000 sq. ft.).

The biggest problem I see is malls in poorer areas are striving for wealthier consumers to shop at them.

I know three malls in CA that still have structures standing, but the malls themselves are more like discount malls with Wal-Mart as an anchor and other low-income stores. I think we will continue to see this happen as long as we are in a down economy and wealthy people are shopping in wealthier areas.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I think you are right. Some malls have failed due to the urban decay where malls that were centered in inner city suburbs, and as Caucasians fled out to newer suburban housing the malls closer to the old houses which were filled by new less wealthy residents lead to dead malls.

However, like in my city, the city leadership and the mall were able to keep enough people coming to the one nice part of downtown for reasons like the nicest movie theater in town and the clothing stores.

The city itself has 100,000 population but the area draws 150,000 population in a 15 minute drive. Not to mention it's the only enclosed mall around, so rather people like it or not they have to go to the enclosed mall for clothes or the outlet mall. But people tend to go the enclosed mall because it's food court is good, it's busier, and the selection is better.

I know most counties in CA have malls have at least 100,000 population within a 15-20 minute drive.

Outlet malls in CA seem to draw from a population less than 100,000 population and rely on no other outlet malls nearby and tourists from a freeway. The outlet mall near me was a Prime Outlet, but it's now a Premium Outlet.

As for malls in rural areas, Bayshore Mall in Eureka (28,000 population) is the closest I can think of. It's an ex-urban area that used to be more rural. It's anchored by JcPenney's, Kohl's, and Wal-Mart.

Then there is the old county I used to live in. When San Luis Obispo had less than 30,000 population and less than 100,000 population within a 15 minute drive, we had an enclosed mall with a Gottschalk's and Embassey Suites. We didn't have enough population for Sear's at that time, and JCPenney's was downtown. That mall was in a good suburban area, but competition from big box centers and a funky college downtown in sunny CA weather led people to not shop at the mall. The mall developer was going to have JCPenney's locate at the mall, but the city decided to deny JCPenney's permit for the second department store, so the mall was sold to a new company where they converted the mall into another big box center. The county is still pretty rural. The biggest town is at 45,000 population and the area towns are so far apart that you don't have 100,000 population within 15 minutes.

I also find the rural malls (enclosed malls) are located in small towns with harsher weather conditions much as is the mall in Eureka and some small malls I know in the mid-west.

I also have found lifestyle centers are being located in tourist areas with lower populations and high concentrations of wealthy people. Most of the time, it's a small lifestyle center (no bigger than 150,000 sq. ft.).

The biggest problem I see is malls in poorer areas are striving for wealthier consumers to shop at them.

I know three malls in CA that still have structures standing, but the malls themselves are more like discount malls with Wal-Mart as an anchor and other low-income stores. I think we will continue to see this happen as long as we are in a down economy and wealthy people are shopping in wealthier areas.
If I am correct California has more malls than anywhere else in the country. California came of age during the latter half of the 20th century, and shopping malls took off in a major way. California may be exempt to the density rules that normally dictate where malls are built, if there is enough money going around to support those malls. In boom times when the money is flowing malls have a way of appearing out of thin air. When times aren't so great, as California is leading the nation in unemployment and there is a shift with Blacks and Whites leaving the state, and Latinos, Asians and other groups moving into the state amenities like shopping malls, which may not be of the same importance to the groups moving in, might not be supported to the same degree as they were previously.

My understanding is that California and New York are great for the rich and wealthy, but very hard on the middle class who are getting taxed to death. Shopping malls are more of a middle class phenomenon, as the rich shop in boutiques and stand alone stores. Some malls are able to cater to the upper middle class with high-end European retail, but the rich would be more likely to go to a fashion district and walk into an actual Gucci store than to purchase Gucci from some store in a shopping mall.

Malls in poor areas that sell expensive merchandise are selling expensive merchandise that appeals to those poor consumers. You'll see a drug dealer walk into a some store in a mall in the neighborhood that sells Versace and Louis Vuitton sneakers, or Dior jeans, for example, stuff you don't see a lot of rich people wearing, not because they can't afford to, but because their look is more sophisticated, and not so obvious. Even now, you can walk down the street in a poor neighborhood in New York and find a store selling $700 sneakers, but you aren't going to see a rich person come in there. Not "old money" anyway, perhaps someone that has just become rich, but does not have the "class" that is associated with growing up rich.

It is very sad. Back in the day I could go to a city like Detroit and Cleveland and walk into the mall and buy something ghetto fabulous for $1,000. Ten years later those same malls are half empty. Today most of those malls are closed, and the $300 jeans are being sold elsewhere. When the money was flowing in California they were probably building malls everywhere, just like everyone else was in the 80s and 90s, without respect to how many people would support that mall just as long as the few that did walk through the malls spent their money every weekend. These days the projects are a lot smaller, and more intimate. Or you get these "lifestyle centers" where they build a central business district with housing, restaurants, retail, banking, office space and the kitchen sink. One of the lifestyle centers out here in Virginia has a community college built into it.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:04 AM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,888,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
If I am correct California has more malls than anywhere else in the country. California came of age during the latter half of the 20th century, and shopping malls took off in a major way. California may be exempt to the density rules that normally dictate where malls are built, if there is enough money going around to support those malls. In boom times when the money is flowing malls have a way of appearing out of thin air. When times aren't so great, as California is leading the nation in unemployment and there is a shift with Blacks and Whites leaving the state, and Latinos, Asians and other groups moving into the state amenities like shopping malls, which may not be of the same importance to the groups moving in, might not be supported to the same degree as they were previously.

My understanding is that California and New York are great for the rich and wealthy, but very hard on the middle class who are getting taxed to death. Shopping malls are more of a middle class phenomenon, as the rich shop in boutiques and stand alone stores. Some malls are able to cater to the upper middle class with high-end European retail, but the rich would be more likely to go to a fashion district and walk into an actual Gucci store than to purchase Gucci from some store in a shopping mall.

Malls in poor areas that sell expensive merchandise are selling expensive merchandise that appeals to those poor consumers. You'll see a drug dealer walk into a some store in a mall in the neighborhood that sells Versace and Louis Vuitton sneakers, or Dior jeans, for example, stuff you don't see a lot of rich people wearing, not because they can't afford to, but because their look is more sophisticated, and not so obvious. Even now, you can walk down the street in a poor neighborhood in New York and find a store selling $700 sneakers, but you aren't going to see a rich person come in there. Not "old money" anyway, perhaps someone that has just become rich, but does not have the "class" that is associated with growing up rich.

It is very sad. Back in the day I could go to a city like Detroit and Cleveland and walk into the mall and buy something ghetto fabulous for $1,000. Ten years later those same malls are half empty. Today most of those malls are closed, and the $300 jeans are being sold elsewhere. When the money was flowing in California they were probably building malls everywhere, just like everyone else was in the 80s and 90s, without respect to how many people would support that mall just as long as the few that did walk through the malls spent their money every weekend. These days the projects are a lot smaller, and more intimate. Or you get these "lifestyle centers" where they build a central business district with housing, restaurants, retail, banking, office space and the kitchen sink. One of the lifestyle centers out here in Virginia has a community college built into it.
I agree with you. I feel more Hispanics moving here are trying to save money and are not concerned with malls, but more concerned with a Wal-Mart or Target. Asians I definitely feel do not like malls. I know Hispanics who have been here a while do like malls. I could be wrong through. I'm not Hispanic and haven't asked a Hispanic friend this question.

I think some enclosed malls cater to upper middle class too. Malls are middle class thing in general.

I agree that CA has alot of suburbia and the most malls out of all the states. However many outlet malls have gone away in the past decade.

Certain middle class careers are disappearing here, but still an existant middle class here.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Originally Posted by the city View Post
I agree with you. I feel more Hispanics moving here are trying to save money and are not concerned with malls, but more concerned with a Wal-Mart or Target. Asians I definitely feel do not like malls. I know Hispanics who have been here a while do like malls. I could be wrong through. I'm not Hispanic and haven't asked a Hispanic friend this question.

I think some enclosed malls cater to upper middle class too. Malls are middle class thing in general.

I agree that CA has alot of suburbia and the most malls out of all the states. However many outlet malls have gone away in the past decade.

Certain middle class careers are disappearing here, but still an existant middle class here.
Those that are left are probably subservient positions that exist to make life easier for the rich. But that is just the way that it is in America overall. Ironically, some of the largest malls in the world are built in Asia, but I'm not sure if those Asians that are assimilated to life in America care for malls.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
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Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
In Pennsylvania, Columbia Mall, at the Buckhorn (Bloomsburg) exit of I-80 and Schuylkill Mall, at the Frackville exit of I-81 are two that come immediately to mind.

I was just going to say the Schuykill Mall. It's a decent sized mall that serves a very rural populous.

Whereas the area that the mall is in is rural, it's rural for north central/eastern PA which is to say that the area has many small towns in the area that the mall serves.

When I lived in Ashland I would drive over twice a week to the area.
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