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Old 02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,514 posts, read 9,066,311 times
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Having a car in certain enviornments is almost an essential, and can't really be avoided. However, smaller cities where the traffic isn't so bad, having a car is not so much of a burden. Commutes are quick, traffic is light, people cycle for fun, not usually to work, and having a car can be a pleasure. I enjoy driving, so I'll always have a car.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:06 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
If we're going to talk about about transit-friendly walkable neighborhoods, NYC is the best example in the country. We could move on to other countries as well, but few seemed interested.

In any case, I have more to say about NYC than other large cities.
Yes, and that's why I like to talk about Denver, too. I can discuss it intelligently. I don't say, "I HEARD that in Denver. . . ". (Agreeing with you, somewhat.) I do think we get bogged down sometimes in talking about specific cities.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:17 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Q #2-Yes, the city itself was pretty much done growing by 1950. Despite what you easterners think, western cities, including those in California, do not go out rapaciously annexing land on a weekly basis. The northwestern borders are relatively unchanged since 1896, when the area was annexed to Denver.
For myself, I never comment much on city annexation comparions. I haven't much mention of western city annexations much.

The RTD's boundaries cover the whole metro, it doesn't stop at city limits. The metro area is much larger today (maybe 4 times?)

Quote:
I posted about Denver because, unlike most people here on CD, on all forums, I like to post about what I know, which is the same thing the posters discussing New England, the midwest, and Baltimore did. Also, because I happen to live in the Denver area.
Mostly, when I said transit agencies rarely added new service I was thinking about areas that haven't grown that much in the last 50 years, at least compared to some of the newer metros of the south or the west. I'm not familiar with any places that new, and they're rather beyond my experience. I have more experience and connection with London than cities in the US 2000 miles away (and am more interested in discussing London). It's rather easy to not think about these places.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:39 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
For myself, I never comment much on city annexation comparions. I haven't much mention of western city annexations much.

The RTD's boundaries cover the whole metro, it doesn't stop at city limits. The metro area is much larger today (maybe 4 times?)



Mostly, when I said transit agencies rarely added new service I was thinking about areas that haven't grown that much in the last 50 years, at least compared to some of the newer metros of the south or the west. I'm not familiar with any places that new, and they're rather beyond my experience. I have more experience and connection with London than cities in the US 2000 miles away (and am more interested in discussing London). It's rather easy to not think about these places.
Yes, the RTD covers the whole metro. That's my point! Prior to the RTD, service was limited to Denver and its older suburbs, and a little "interurban" service. Has the metro grown? The land area has not grown, no. Has the population grown, yes. But there are few suburbs that were totally non-existent 50 years ago.

Sorry, but Colorado is still a part of the US, like it or not, and the interests of the mod should not determine what we talk about, entirely.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:47 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Sorry, but Colorado is still a part of the US, like it or not, and the interests of the mod should not determine what we talk about, entirely.
I didn't say what we should or shouldn't talk about. I said I might not occur to me to consider all of the US for reasons I mentioned. You're reading something I did not say.

This forum is not specifically limited to the US. Whether or not it is in the US is irrelevant.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, the RTD covers the whole metro. That's my point! Prior to the RTD, service was limited to Denver and its older suburbs, and a little "interurban" service. Has the metro grown? The land area has not grown, no. Has the population grown, yes. But there are few suburbs that were totally non-existent 50 years ago.

Sorry, but Colorado is still a part of the US, like it or not, and the interests of the mod should not determine what we talk about, entirely.
Basically I think nei is getting at walkability, since the thread is about ditching the car. First off, there are few places in the country that have reliable transit, or transit that is good enough to warrant walking around etc.

I think it's pretty known that NYC is the best place for that lifestyle in our country. However, in say London, Paris, Barcelona, etc, then Tokyo. People whom have been to those places say the transit systems are much better.

It's like this, I've never been to Denver but I've been to NYC, if I'm seeking a more walkable lifestyle, Denver doesn't come to mind as the place to pursue that goal, just as I haven't mentioned Michigan or the Detroit area because you need a car here. There is a big difference between cities, so while your walkability/transit in Denver may cause you to question why anyone would go car-less, that thought doesn't apply to Chicago, NYC, or some other northeast cities.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:52 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Basically I think nei is getting at walkability, since the thread is about ditching the car. First off, there are few places in the country that have reliable transit, or transit that is good enough to warrant walking around etc.

I think it's pretty known that NYC is the best place for that lifestyle in our country. However, in say London, Paris, Barcelona, etc, then Tokyo. People whom have been to those places say the transit systems are much better.

It's like this, I've never been to Denver but I've been to NYC, if I'm seeking a more walkable lifestyle, Denver doesn't come to mind as the place to pursue that goal, just as I haven't mentioned Michigan or the Detroit area because you need a car here. There is a big difference between cities, so while your walkability/transit in Denver may cause you to question why anyone would go car-less, that thought doesn't apply to Chicago, NYC, or some other northeast cities.
This may come as some surprise to you, but I grew up in Pittsburgh and I have spent a great deal of time in the northeast and midwest. The issue we were discussing was whether public transportation has improved in the past, oh, say, 50 years. There is an assumption by easterners that Denver is some kind of "new" city, e.g. sprung up out of the ground in say, the last 20 years. That is in fact, untrue. 60 years ago, Denver had a population of almost 500,000 people, 493K in fact, and an MSA of almost 1 million, 900 some thousand.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,798 posts, read 19,032,857 times
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When I moved to Chicago, I sold my car and haven't looked back. I barely ever need a car and absolutely love living like this. I LOVE driving too, don't get me wrong and I agree with others that in a smaller city it's not as much of a burden and in the US it's pretty needed usually. The only times I really need the car is when I need to drive to some neighboring states for whatever reason (i.e. Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan).

There's a lot of cities where I'd never live without a car in though, but in a city like NYC, Chicago, DC....there's a chance you don't need your car, but there is definitely a chance you do. There are some people here in Chicago who do reverse commute and while the transit here is generally great into the suburbs even, there's still some suburban areas that kind of suck for getting there via commuter rail.

All in all though, i absolutely LOVE urban living. I love being able to walk somewhere or just hop on a train. Absolutely love it...there's nothing better than saying "Crap, it's 4am but i can't sleep and i'm really hungry. Let me walk out my front door..oh look there's 10 places that are still open i can just walk to in 1 minute, hang out" without even having to worry about getting in a car or even if i have too many drinks about whether I should drive home or not.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:20 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,196,095 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, the RTD covers the whole metro. That's my point! Prior to the RTD, service was limited to Denver and its older suburbs, and a little "interurban" service. Has the metro grown? The land area has not grown, no. Has the population grown, yes. But there are few suburbs that were totally non-existent 50 years ago.

Sorry, but Colorado is still a part of the US, like it or not, and the interests of the mod should not determine what we talk about, entirely.
The land area of metro Denver has grown substantially in the last 50 years.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:22 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
This may come as some surprise to you, but I grew up in Pittsburgh and I have spent a great deal of time in the northeast and midwest. The issue we were discussing was whether public transportation has improved in the past, oh, say, 50 years. There is an assumption by easterners that Denver is some kind of "new" city, e.g. sprung up out of the ground in say, the last 20 years. That is in fact, untrue. 60 years ago, Denver had a population of almost 500,000 people, 493K in fact, and an MSA of almost 1 million, 900 some thousand.
This link shows 612,000 for the metro. Only 1/4 of its population 60 years ago compared today:

Top 50 US Metropolitan Areas (1996) Population from 1950

I traveled in the west (mainly Oregon and Washington) recently and though I did some old areas, everything felt very new to me. Ditto with British Columbia.
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