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Old 12-22-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,426 posts, read 59,932,247 times
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Quote:
after getting used to the no car culture, i dont think i can ever go back to a car culture
Well, the good news is that we all have choices. You can choose to not have a car, I can choose to own and enjoy a car.

Simple, isn't it?
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:08 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,037 posts, read 102,723,474 times
Reputation: 33084
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
Zip car?

The city needs to further prioritize pedestrians and transit cars. Feel free to own own, but it shouldn't be easy if you live one mile from a subway station.

To the previous poster, for everything needed within walking distance, yes the vast majority of New Yorkers have that. There are few unwalkable areas in NYC. For anything else you can take the subway. If you want to leave the city, zip car

It's for the good of the vast majority of NYkers and visitors.
Talk about a "nanny state"! What if you move to > 1 mile from a subway station? All this buying and selling of $20K+ item could get a bit much.

I'm kind of concerned about being on the road with all these zip-car drivers who hardly ever drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkat59 View Post
Cars are sort of a necessary evil in a society that has made them their religion, but if you make the effort to excommunicate yourself from he insanity, the rewards are great.
The decision to move to my current city to finally put some roots down and retire was based largely on not needing a car.
It is liberating. It changes the way you feel and look at everything. I would never ever live anywhere where I needed to be married to a car again. You don't realize how much of a profound effect so much negative time, money and energy spent has on your quality of life until you divest yourself of it.
Isn't that a bit hyperbolic?
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:09 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,897,070 times
Reputation: 4691
Obviously, owning a car in Manhattan is generally more a hassle than it's worth. As a car enthusiast who doesn't like long commutes on a day-to-day basis, I appreciate the balance a city like Philadelphia can provide. The public transportation is decent enough that I don't need to drive on a daily basis, but when I do want/need to use the car, it's neither prohibitively expensive nor frustratingly congested.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:14 AM
 
9,522 posts, read 14,865,612 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Isn't that a bit hyperbolic?
There is a real religion here, but it's the one which places the car in the devil's position. One of the tenets of this religion appears to be that transaction costs don't exist -- that is, that it's NOT a real pain in the butt to rent a car, that a bus transfer is no more difficult than a left turn, and that a mile walk (about 18 minutes in Manhattan, presuming the mile is by the Manhattan metric and not as the crow flies) between your home and transit (and presumably at the other end as well) is no problem at all.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:19 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,037 posts, read 102,723,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
There is a real religion here, but it's the one which places the car in the devil's position. One of the tenets of this religion appears to be that transaction costs don't exist -- that is, that it's NOT a real pain in the butt to rent a car, that a bus transfer is no more difficult than a left turn, and that a mile walk (about 18 minutes in Manhattan, presuming the mile is by the Manhattan metric and not as the crow flies) between your home and transit (and presumably at the other end as well) is no problem at all.
Ah yes, the "Church of Urban Planning". Some are drunk on the communion wine!
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:38 AM
 
1,015 posts, read 1,544,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
There is a real religion here, but it's the one which places the car in the devil's position. One of the tenets of this religion appears to be that transaction costs don't exist -- that is, that it's NOT a real pain in the butt to rent a car, that a bus transfer is no more difficult than a left turn, and that a mile walk (about 18 minutes in Manhattan, presuming the mile is by the Manhattan metric and not as the crow flies) between your home and transit (and presumably at the other end as well) is no problem at all.
I think that pretty much sentient person would grant that the US, outside a few urban enclaves, is set up to facilitate the movement of cars (not people). The question is do we want to keep pouring billions and billions of dollars into subsidizing that lifestyle? Do we follow the Church of American Sprawl and say that the only way to get around is and should be and driving? Do we continue to kill hundreds, if not thousands of people who are so foolish as to try to walk or bike on massive suburban roads? Do we keep heading down the path of oil dependence even as oil starts to run out. Do we keep devoting 50, 60, 70% of urban space to roads and parking, so we can't use them for anything else? Do we keep insisting that every residence must have parking attached to it, whether the residents want it or not? Those are the religious positions of the Church of Auto Uber Alles.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:38 AM
 
3,463 posts, read 4,549,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Talk about a "nanny state"! What if you move to > 1 mile from a subway station? All this buying and selling of $20K+ item could get a bit much.

I'm kind of concerned about being on the road with all these zip-car drivers who hardly ever drive.



Isn't that a bit hyperbolic?
No. The American lifestyle is built around them. They affect every facet of our life in the USA from the infrastructure to budgets of local governments to even more abstract stuff like the psychological effects of stress, time spent commuting and anonymity/road rage issues have on our society, long-term.
Any time one of these threads come up, look at the responses by the more zealotous of the auto-jihadists. They invoke NRA(USA's#2 religion) gun-wack level rage at any opinion they feel is an affront to their lifestyle.
Cars are necessary and good in some ways, but our(USA) version of them is the equivalent of a bum who panhandles quarters to maintain his two-gallon-a-day MadDog 20/20 habit
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,500,645 times
Reputation: 3411
That will take a while, but everything
is really about good health and efficiency.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:35 PM
 
9,522 posts, read 14,865,612 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
I think that pretty much sentient person would grant that the US, outside a few urban enclaves, is set up to facilitate the movement of cars (not people).
In that case, you may assume you are arguing with my pet rock, because I disagree with this. As a matter of fact, your statement is not just wrong, but logically impossible. I can reduce the problem of moving people to the problem of moving cars by putting people IN the cars. Therefore, parts of the US set up to facilitate the movement of cars are also set up to facilitate the movement of people.

Fact is, without a vehicle, people don't move too quickly. Thus, until someone figures out a practical way of doing moving sidewalks a la Heinlein, to facilitate the movement of people is going to require vehicles.

Quote:
The question is do we want to keep pouring billions and billions of dollars into subsidizing that lifestyle? Do we follow the Church of American Sprawl and say that the only way to get around is and should be and driving? Do we continue to kill hundreds, if not thousands of people who are so foolish as to try to walk or bike on massive suburban roads? Do we keep heading down the path of oil dependence even as oil starts to run out. Do we keep devoting 50, 60, 70% of urban space to roads and parking, so we can't use them for anything else? Do we keep insisting that every residence must have parking attached to it, whether the residents want it or not? Those are the religious positions of the Church of Auto Uber Alles.
No, this is a sermon of The Church Against The Auto.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:53 PM
 
3,463 posts, read 4,549,851 times
Reputation: 7127
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
In that case, you may assume you are arguing with my pet rock, because I disagree with this. As a matter of fact, your statement is not just wrong, but logically impossible. I can reduce the problem of moving people to the problem of moving cars by putting people IN the cars. Therefore, parts of the US set up to facilitate the movement of cars are also set up to facilitate the movement of people.

Fact is, without a vehicle, people don't move too quickly. Thus, until someone figures out a practical way of doing moving sidewalks a la Heinlein, to facilitate the movement of people is going to require vehicles.



No, this is a sermon of The Church Against The Auto.

Very scary.
Even more so that we are content with emulating china and mexico rather than germany and sweden or any other rational and civilized country.
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