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Old 01-03-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
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Weren't the first large department stores in the down-towns of cities?

This is Macy's
V

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Old 01-03-2013, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
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Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
The advantages of living in the city are more than negated by the extreme costs of daily living. It requires a salary of at least double that of central Connecticut to have near the same quality of life.
The reason for this is due to the extremely high demand for living in these gentrified urban communities.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:58 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
Weren't the first large department stores in the down-towns of cities?

This is Macy's
V
That Macy's is bigger than any big box store maybe bigger than most malls. Manhattan "big box" stores often seem a bit larger than their suburban counterparts. That photo looks rather empty of auto traffic, neat to see streetcars there. Just as busy with pedestrians today, if not more so:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=midto...8,,0,-5.7&z=15

Most American cities used to have large department stores, Detroit had Hudson's which was the second largest in the US after Macy's
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
Weren't the first large department stores in the down-towns of cities?

This is Macy's
V
Oh yes. Downtown Chicago has huge department stores. So do Minneapolis and Seattle. I think all the major cities have them. Many are beautiful old buildings like the one you have in your photo of Macy's.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:12 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Oh yes. Downtown Chicago has huge department stores. So do Minneapolis and Seattle. I think all the major cities have them. Many are beautiful old buildings like the one you have in your photo of Macy's.
Baltimore did, but they left for the burbs along with a most of the middle class. The department stores and theaters remain, some repurposed, some left for dead, on Howard street.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
That Macy's is bigger than any big box store maybe bigger than most malls.
It's about 1.1 million square feet of retail space. About 10 times the size of a typical Home Depot, and well over 1/3rd the size of the King of Prussia Mall (largest mall in the US based on retail space -- the large Macy's there is a mere 250,000 square feet).


Note that the Manhattan Mall is just the first two floors of the building which used to house Macy's old rival, Gimbels.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:58 PM
 
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Department stores are indeed a historic downtown form. Big downtowns have, or had, big stores. What's new is that specific stores--e.g. Home Depot--which grew up in the suburbs have come into the central city, including Manhattan. One question was whether those stores could work in a setting where many people reached them on transit or on foot, apparently they can. I saw the original Ikea in Stockholm--you can get there on a shuttle bus from the subway, and much of its sales are delivered to people's houses. Some people see the movement of the initially suburban stores as homogenization of the city, others as providing convenience to city dwellers.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
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I don't know if I mentioned this on this thread but a large Target store is going into a downtown Portland in a building where an old mall used to be housed.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
It's about 1.1 million square feet of retail space. About 10 times the size of a typical Home Depot, and well over 1/3rd the size of the King of Prussia Mall (largest mall in the US based on retail space -- the large Macy's there is a mere 250,000 square feet).


Note that the Manhattan Mall is just the first two floors of the building which used to house Macy's old rival, Gimbels.

the comparison of square footage is rather misleading. both use roughly the same amount of land but the Macy's building is much more space efficient because it has multiple floors for its retail space whereas the Home Depot has only one floor. single-story buildings of course are the least efficient type of building in terms of land use. and having large numbers of single-story buildings is what causes sprawl. you're also ignoring the huge amount of surface parking required by the Home Depot. every big box store requires its own football field size parking lot which takes up as much land (if not more) than the store itself. the Macy's building has no such parking requirement because it is located in an urban environment where most people get around by transit, biking or walking.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:55 PM
 
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But where do the "City Target" stores, typically two stories (I think) fit in. They have gone right into the center of Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and probably other cities, in highly transit accessible locations. They're smaller than "traditional" Targets. It looks to me like it's edging back towards at least a limited version of a department store.
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