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Old 01-04-2013, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
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Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
But where do the "City Target" stores, typically two stories (I think) fit in. They have gone right into the center of Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and probably other cities, in highly transit accessible locations. They're smaller than "traditional" Targets. It looks to me like it's edging back towards at least a limited version of a department store.
This is where the Target is going in downtown Portland. The building is getting a face lift. It is an historic landmark that has housed a previous mall with great local shops and restaurants. But they folded one by one during the 90's. The last renters included a culinary arts school and a local gemstone shop. Then a few other stores were in and out pretty quickly on the ground floor.

Portland, Target unveil plans for City Target at the Galleria downtown | OregonLive.com


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Old 01-04-2013, 05:51 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
Department stores are indeed a historic downtown form. Big downtowns have, or had, big stores. What's new is that specific stores--e.g. Home Depot--which grew up in the suburbs have come into the central city, including Manhattan. One question was whether those stores could work in a setting where many people reached them on transit or on foot, apparently they can. I saw the original Ikea in Stockholm--you can get there on a shuttle bus from the subway, and much of its sales are delivered to people's houses. Some people see the movement of the initially suburban stores as homogenization of the city, others as providing convenience to city dwellers.
I think there are some Ikea locations with Zipcars.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:13 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
But where do the "City Target" stores, typically two stories (I think) fit in. They have gone right into the center of Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and probably other cities, in highly transit accessible locations. They're smaller than "traditional" Targets. It looks to me like it's edging back towards at least a limited version of a department store.
And some urban Targets are as large as traditional Target. The one in Brooklyn above Atlantic Station (built above a transit hub) is around 190,000 square feet, larger than most. Urban and almost in downtown Brooklyn. Another one in Brooklyn is the largest Target in the country, though it's a bit outlying:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/re...3junction.html

The Atlantic Station store seems to be a typically big box-style store in a department store style layout.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
But where do the "City Target" stores, typically two stories (I think) fit in. They have gone right into the center of Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and probably other cities, in highly transit accessible locations. They're smaller than "traditional" Targets. It looks to me like it's edging back towards at least a limited version of a department store.
My wife goes to the CityTarget in DTLA a lot because it is block from her office, which is actually the second LA location with the first being in Westwood. I honestly can't remember if I went into the DTLA location once with her... I think I did but Targets kind of all look the same.

I believe it is pretty much 100 percent a regular Target, it is very large (if I have actually been in it) and really is only lacking things that no downtown resident would ever need like heavy gardening equipment and had an even larger grocery section.

One big box store I can think of in an urban environment is the Best Buy near the Hynes Convention Center station in Boston.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
the comparison of square footage is rather misleading. both use roughly the same amount of land but the Macy's building is much more space efficient because it has multiple floors for its retail space whereas the Home Depot has only one floor. single-story buildings of course are the least efficient type of building in terms of land use. and having large numbers of single-story buildings is what causes sprawl. you're also ignoring the huge amount of surface parking required by the Home Depot. every big box store requires its own football field size parking lot which takes up as much land (if not more) than the store itself. the Macy's building has no such parking requirement because it is located in an urban environment where most people get around by transit, biking or walking.
I'm not ignoring anything; I was just providing some data. Obviously the nine floor Macy's flagship store in NYC has more retail space per footprint than a Home Depot with parking lot. I don't happen to think optimizing for land use is the be-all and end-all of retail design, however.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
I saw the original Ikea in Stockholm--you can get there on a shuttle bus from the subway, and much of its sales are delivered to people's houses.
Problem with that in the US is the delivery charges can cost as much as -- or more than -- the furniture. A Billy bookcase which costs $79.00 costs $99.00 to deliver to my house in suburban NJ... or my office in Manhattan. Makes a lot of sense to use a car -- or that horror of horrors, an SUV -- in that case.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Problem with that in the US is the delivery charges can cost as much as -- or more than -- the furniture. A Billy bookcase which costs $79.00 costs $99.00 to deliver to my house in suburban NJ... or my office in Manhattan. Makes a lot of sense to use a car -- or that horror of horrors, an SUV -- in that case.
But that's a circular phenomenon--if delivering goods was really a widely offered and used service, the cost would drop a lot. Businesses would treat it to some extent as a cost of doing business, but they don't have to now.

To me, a City Target above a transit hub like Atlantic Station, even if the store is huge, is a good thing, because it facilitates transit-based shopping. This brings us back towards major shopping being aligned with major transit.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:45 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
To me, a City Target above a transit hub like Atlantic Station, even if the store is huge, is a good thing, because it facilitates transit-based shopping. This brings us back towards major shopping being aligned with major transit.
And the Atlantic Station has attached parking garage which charges low-ish rates for the first few hours (and rather high rates past that) so it's easy to drive if you need to, though if you live along any of the train that pass through, transit is probably cheaper and maybe faster. It's a good compromise location for road & transit accessibility, which is probably why Target hasn't built business-district Manhattan store (no parking would be available there). As I mentioned before, it's technically not a City Target — it's branded as a regular Target and larger than almost all "big box" Targets.

I've also seen people carry rather bulky items on transit — I saw a Christmas Tree on an LIRR recently, though I was confused what that was from.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:54 PM
 
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The City Target in San Francisco as at the Metreon. It's one block from a BART station and the Market St. transit spine, which has huge amounts of service. There's a significant amount of bus service that goes right by the store. It's also across the street from a massive municipal parking garage. I don't believe that garage has a lot of excess capacity during weekday daytimes but it does on nights and weekends, so people could certainly drive there.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:12 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
But that's a circular phenomenon--if delivering goods was really a widely offered and used service, the cost would drop a lot. Businesses would treat it to some extent as a cost of doing business, but they don't have to now.

To me, a City Target above a transit hub like Atlantic Station, even if the store is huge, is a good thing, because it facilitates transit-based shopping. This brings us back towards major shopping being aligned with major transit.
I don't know if I agree with the first para. Delivery of something has always been expensive. In the case of IKEA (what the previous poster was talking about), they contract out their delivery service, so everyone gets a cut. It's not cheap though.
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