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Old 01-04-2013, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I just think it's unreasonable to assume that a person who walked and used transit for years 10-61 would not care about that mobility at age 62 (which is what I have been trying to get across). Anyway I see it everyday.
It can't be that unreasonable if hundreds of thousands of people are doing it.

I mean, if your only point is that not every senior wants to give up a transit-oriented lifestyle for sprawlier pastures, then no one can really argue with that (and nobody has argued against that anyway). But you at least have to recognize that priorities often change for many people as they get older. There are hundreds of thousands of people from northern cities who have cashed out and purchased homes in Florida, North Carolina and Georgia. And many are extremely happy without the conveniences of city life that many younger people find essential to every day living.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
There are lots of old people who feel like they must keep driving because they don't have any decent alternatives. Many of them recognize that they really shouldn't be driving, and would take transit if they lived in a neighborhood that was walkable and had decent transit service. So it's not about tapas bars, it's about daily life.
I don't think you read the post to which I replied. The poster said that he would be cruising around in a wheelchair and riding transit in his old age. If you're confined to a wheelchair in your 70s or 80s, you're probably already dependent on people anyway. These are usually people who have a hard time getting to the bathroom little less rolling to a bus stop or subway stop in a wheelchair and riding transit down to dialysis. "Meals on Wheels" and the special vans many transit agencies operate are intended precisely for these types of people.

Older people who can get around on their own power without the use of a wheelchair or a walker are a completely different story.

If you live to be 81, have decent vision with corrective lenses, and can run errands without assistance, then consider yourself blessed. But for every 81 year old who fits that bill, I can find 10 who don't. The self-sufficient 80+ year old is definitely the exception, not the rule.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:12 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,098,346 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It can't be that unreasonable if hundreds of thousands of people are doing it.

I mean, if your only point is that not every senior wants to give up a transit-oriented lifestyle for sprawlier pastures, then no one can really argue with that (and nobody has argued against that anyway)..
It truly was my only point. And it did seem like at least a few posters were arguing against that. Many people here aren't interested in moving or can't afford to do it, either. This isn't a very wealthy city.

The conveniences of city life you mentioned previously (glibly) were tapas bars and something else superflouous. That is obviously not what the average senior is looking for, but a continuation of an established routine might be. This is my observation from somewhere that is a good bit different from North Brooklyn or Omaha.

ETA: Just remembered a third retirement apartment in my city that has scheduled bus service to its front door (every other trip, so about every 20-30 minutes during peak operation). A day rarely passes that I don't see the Jazzy scooter parade on my way home from work.

Last edited by HandsUpThumbsDown; 01-04-2013 at 08:29 AM..
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
It truly was my only point. And it did seem like at least a few posters were arguing against that.
But was that really a point worth making? I mean, would you conversely acknowledge that a lot of older people's priorities change and they no longer value or need the easy-peasy mobility that they once cherised as young whippersnappers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Many people here aren't interested in moving or can't afford to do it, either. This isn't a very wealthy city.
That wasn't my point. It's obvious that there are old people in cities because I see them all the time. My point was that access to transit for a 90-year old may not be as high a priority as it is for a 20-year old. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
The conveniences of city life you mentioned previously (glibly) were tapas bars and something else superflouous. That is obviously not what the average senior is looking for, but a continuation of an established routine might be. This is my observation from somewhere that is a good bit different from North Brooklyn or Omaha.
What is the established routine for the average 80-year old confined to a wheelchair, which was what I initially addressed?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:47 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,098,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But was that really a point worth making? I mean, would you conversely acknowledge that a lot of older people's priorities change and they no longer value or need the easy-peasy mobility that they once cherised as young whippersnappers??
Sure, if it would make you feel better. I believe I did acknowledge that. I think it was a point worth making since it was being thrown under the motorized wheelchair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That wasn't my point. It's obvious that there are old people in cities because I see them all the time. My point was that access to transit for a 90-year old may not be as high a priority as it is for a 20-year old. Period.
It is obvious, but the idea wasn't being represented on this post, and when I presented it, I was met with pushback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
What is the established routine for the average 80-year old confined to a wheelchair, which was what I initially addressed?
Going to get Tapas and a 6-pack of PBR.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Sure, if it would make you feel better. I believe I did acknowledge that. I think it was a point worth making since it was being thrown under the motorized wheelchair.
I didn't see any acknolwedgement in your posts. I think it's customary on C-D for people to take a basic, general proposition and whittle down to every single exception in an effort to invalidate it. It's like saying "Charlotte is not a very walkable city," and then pointing out the 59 micro-areas of the city that are "walkable."
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,098,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I didn't see any acknolwedgement in your posts. I think it's customary on C-D for people to take a basic, general proposition and whittle down to every single exception in an effort to invalidate it. It's like saying "Charlotte is not a very walkable city," and then pointing out the 59 micro-areas of the city that are "walkable."
I said that there are probably many residents in the senior center who aren't mobile, that's close enough to acknolwedgement. I wasn't arguing in terms of absolutes, but you seemed to. You didn't acknowledge that my post was "obvious" for three pages, so I don't get what your problem is with my argument.

Yes things do get parsed down to tiny bits here. However having been to Charlotte I don't find that an apt comparison, as I'd say it's more common to find mobile seniors in cities than it is to find a walkable neighborhood in Charlotte.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I said that there are probably many residents in the senior center who aren't mobile, that's close enough to acknolwedgement. I wasn't arguing in terms of absolutes, but you seemed to. You didn't acknowledge that my post was "obvious" for three pages, so I don't get what your problem is with my argument.
No, I didn't see you write that, but you can correct me if I'm wrong. But that's no so relevant anyhow. I was really focused on this statement after all:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I guess it's all what you're used to. If you spent most of your life walking and using transit (there are a fair number of older folks in this city who just never learned to drive), it doesn't really add up that when you move into a 55/62+ apartment that you would all of the sudden no longer care about that mobility.
My question is "Why doesn't it add up?" Putting aside those who do stay in cities, why does it not "add up" for someone has used transit their whole entire life to "no longer care about that mobility," particularly when there are lots of people who voluntarily move to senior homes in Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas (and the suburbs)? Perhaps you're referring specifically to an old lady who moved from Edmonson Village into a retirement home on the West side, but I'm thinking more generally about lots of northerners who give up the urban lifestyle for sprawlsville.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,098,346 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
My question is "Why doesn't it add up?" Putting aside those who do stay in cities,.
This class was not put aside when we first got into this. This was my only point. To which your responded stuff about Florida and the Carolinas, only to come back and say my point was obvious 3 pages later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
why does it not "add up" for someone has used transit their whole entire life to "no longer care about that mobility," particularly when there are lots of people who voluntarily move to senior homes in Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas (and the suburbs)?
I never made that point - you've altered it with the above modification. ABSOLUTELY lots of people move south. And it's sort of an unanswerable question anyway since you know that transit use is negligble outside of cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Perhaps you're referring specifically to an old lady who moved from Edmonson Village into a retirement home on the West side, but I'm thinking more generally about lots of northerners who give up the urban lifestyle for sprawlsville.
I'm not referring specifically to anybody but to what I'm familiar with here (west, east, and north sides). Generally, it is not some tiny number of gray-hairs who live in a handful of senior apartments here. There are plenty. Sure I know of many who left the city to move south or out to a mega retirement complex in sprawlville (for example, my grandmother) but I was just pointing out that there are still a significant number of those who don't. In Baltimore I do not think a majority leave, but I have no way of knowing that.

I'm not sure there's anything left to discuss, here.

Last edited by HandsUpThumbsDown; 01-04-2013 at 10:14 AM..
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
This class was not put aside when we first got into this. This was my only point. To which your responded stuff about Florida and the Carolinas, only to come back and say my point was obvious 3 pages later.
Two different things going on here:

Statement #1:
I'd rather live in a walkable area with transit when I'm old and in a wheelchair.

Response:
Values change. And when your decrepit ass is in a wheelchair, that might not be so important to you anymore.

Statement #2 (yours):
Old people live in cities and ride transit. It's not reasonable to think that someone who's lived with transit their whole life would just give up that lifestyle.

Response:
But many people have willingly given it up my moving to places with little to no transit access. So it's not unreasonable to believe that somebody who grew up in the Bronx would find comfort living in suburban Jacksonville.

Would you agree that this is an accurate summary of our last few posts?
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