U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-25-2012, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,323 times
Reputation: 199

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Well, Chicago still is a crime-ridden pit of despair -- it's not desirable, therefore it's cheaper.
I wonder what you think of the whole midwest or country, if Chicago is not desirable lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-25-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,344,192 times
Reputation: 11862
Plenty of younger people here love it and plenty of older persons hate it. I've seen no correlation with age.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,648,620 times
Reputation: 35449
I realize those were different times but my mom was able to raise three children in the city of Chicago without the use of a car. Our family had one but we lived on the North side of the city and my dad worked on the South side and needed it to get to work.

My mom didn't know how to drive and like me, never learned how. She never wanted to. It wouldn't have mattered because affording two cars would have been out of the question. It wasn't something people did back then anyway. I think this became more common when people began migrating to the suburbs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2012, 08:18 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,978 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Gonna have to disagree with you on that, a sense of community can be anywhere, but it's hard to feel sense of community when nobody is walking outside, secluded, less people to meet etc.

I'll mention my week long getaway trip to Chicago in the summer. People I believe will help you anywhere, but a big rumor is city folk are rude don't talk to strangers etc. Well I went around Chicago playing my guitar in bars. Each and every night people were very friendly. The people would take me in as a friend asking if I'd wanna hangout with their group of friends afterwards.

So easy to meet people, at the hotel I was in, there were a lot of Europeans. There was a hangout area in the hotel, I had pretty much made friends with the people from London. They went to see me one night and then they were spreading throughout the hotel I was some epic guitarist haha.

I was near overwhelmed by the sense of community in Chicago, things do not happen that quick here or the suburbs here, I've tried both lol.
I have lived in the suburbs most of my life. The burb where I grew up, and the burb where I live now have an excellent sense of community. That was not the case when I lived in "the city", in fact two of them. Some of this is just "serendipity". A neighborhood block can be very friendly; the next block over can be very aloof.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2012, 10:38 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 1,541,069 times
Reputation: 746
I don't see the cities and suburbs as being differentiated by level of community connection. Some urban and some suburban neighborhoods have it, some don't. It has to be nurtured. The types of community and the things people bond over will probably be different.

What's different in the cities is that you have a lot more observation of and interactions with people you don't know or don't know well. You have these interactions on the street and, yes, on transit vehicles, as well as other places. Many people regard these random encounters as a positive, but I'm sure some people don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2012, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,370 posts, read 21,213,499 times
Reputation: 24177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
The future of driving: Seeing the back of the car | The Economist This is a nuanced, global piece about the decline of cars among the young. The American car companies are very worried about this, they're focusing advertising and marketing on luring young people back into the car market. Ford has even run ads touting a low car future as a way of getting young folks to buy cars now!
No sympathy for the auto makers if a few go bankrupt as a result of the younger generaton, or any other generation turning their backs on car ownership!

They're increasingly making cars that are more expensive to repair (like even changing a light builb) with all kinds of electronic gizmos that many buyers never asked for, but it comes with the package! Going back to simpler cars would help? Perhaps this cheap, simple car, the Nano, headed our way from India will tempt more younger people to own a car, a car they can make repairs on themselves!

If the auto workers wish to save their jobs, and the auto makers, they also need to put some pressure on our cities/counties/state to urge their local enforcement officers to quit pulling motorists over for the flimsiest of reasons, just to effectively save their jobs and add some revenue to the local treasuries. They could also lower these sky high fines which have come about the last 10 years, which are unaffordable, a hardship to many motorists.

Sheesh! I got clobbered with $600 fines last year, in one stop. Fought it in court, and lost! Right then and there, I vowed my upcoming retirement years would be car-less! Let them try and give me a ticket riding the bus!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2012, 01:27 AM
 
642 posts, read 960,541 times
Reputation: 505
I don't see why walkable/transit-friendly areas would only be appealing to the younger generation. I feel really sorry for the people who reside in senior centers within car-centric cities and can only get out when relatives pick them up or the recreational shuttle takes them to the bingo hall or wherever. When I get old and can no longer drive I'd like to be somewhere I can still feel independent and comfortable walking or riding around in my wheelchair. It'd be interesting to see how many people would still love their car-centric cities if they were stripped of their driver's licenses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2012, 03:31 AM
 
11,780 posts, read 8,586,532 times
Reputation: 3425
Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
What if the suburbs are already more expensive? I was comparing the northside of Chicago rent to the rent of Ann Arbor, I searched for housing right in the core of the city or part of the cities.

Now keep in mind i thought Chicago would for sure be more expensive, but me ditching a car would make it cheaper to live there... WRONG!! I looked at online housing sites, ranging from craigslist and to the actual realtor sites of the cities. Single bedroom apartments even in one of the best neighborhoods in Chicago, started around 800 a month, compare that to 1100 for Ann Arbor.

I spent time in those neighborhoods in Chicago, the apartments that were 600-800 a month, I thought would be 1500-2000 lol. Obviously I spend time in Ann Arbor but for the life of me couldn't figure out why Ann Arbor was more expensive and this not mentioning a car is needed here as opposed to Chicago.

A car will add at least another 600 dollars a month, so if I was limited to those two it'd be a no brainer to go to Chicago.
Apples and oranges, apples and oranges. Manhattan would likely be more expensive than Ann Arbor, but less expensive than Moscow.

Some parts of Chicago with good schools and accessibility to the lake have studios starting at $1000/month. Compare those neighborhoods with comparable Chicago suburbs and you might find the suburbs to be cheaper.

Plus isn't Ann Arbor home to Univ of Michigan? If so, I guarantee this is a major factor. This occurs near every university town I have seen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2012, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,370 posts, read 21,213,499 times
Reputation: 24177
Quote:
Originally Posted by abqpsychlist View Post
I don't see why walkable/transit-friendly areas would only be appealing to the younger generation. I feel really sorry for the people who reside in senior centers within car-centric cities and can only get out when relatives pick them up or the recreational shuttle takes them to the bingo hall or wherever. When I get old and can no longer drive I'd like to be somewhere I can still feel independent and comfortable walking or riding around in my wheelchair. It'd be interesting to see how many people would still love their car-centric cities if they were stripped of their driver's licenses.
When I moved to Las Vegas, I skipped over the master-planned, 55+, Del Webb communities, as they're car-centric, a long walk just to a 7/11 store. And if you want a nightcap, you're forced to drive to a bar and risk a DUI on the way back. Not for me!

I moved into a more central/urban townhouse complex, where I can walk to 4 bars, a 7/11, even a major grocery store, and 1 block up the street to a bus stop. Take my driver's license away, and you'll be doing me a favor!

I feel for those left stranded in those 55+ master planned communities, particularly those where the DMV decided it was time to surrender the driver's license!

So it's just the young but the older as well!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2012, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
No sympathy for the auto makers if a few go bankrupt as a result of the younger generaton, or any other generation turning their backs on car ownership!

They're increasingly making cars that are more expensive to repair (like even changing a light builb) with all kinds of electronic gizmos that many buyers never asked for, but it comes with the package! Going back to simpler cars would help? Perhaps this cheap, simple car, the Nano, headed our way from India will tempt more younger people to own a car, a car they can make repairs on themselves!

If the auto workers wish to save their jobs, and the auto makers, they also need to put some pressure on our cities/counties/state to urge their local enforcement officers to quit pulling motorists over for the flimsiest of reasons, just to effectively save their jobs and add some revenue to the local treasuries. They could also lower these sky high fines which have come about the last 10 years, which are unaffordable, a hardship to many motorists.

Sheesh! I got clobbered with $600 fines last year, in one stop. Fought it in court, and lost! Right then and there, I vowed my upcoming retirement years would be car-less! Let them try and give me a ticket riding the bus!
The automakers had just about as much direct say in the cause of your troubles as you did, which ain't much.

It's been over 42 years, but I still recall it' in the wake of the Kent State incident in the spring of 1970, my alma mater had substituted "more relevant classes" rather than shut down, So one afternoon, my Econ class got a visitors' lecture from a Ford public relations specialist. His message was simple: "We can live under any set of rules (just as long as Chrysler and GM had to do the same)." Nobody gave much thought to VW or Toyota at the time.

Three years later, in the first wave of petro-hysteria, it became apparent that the EPA would call the shots from here on out; aberrations like the SUV were an industry attempt to reconcile environmental pseudo-moralism with a continued desire on the part of the freeer-spending portion of the public for 1965-style vehcles; in the end, they backfired.

The auto industry today is similar to the utilities and freight railroads, held to lmited prospects for profitabilty and growth, but more vulnerable to short-term swings. Nobody considers automotive stock as a safe, suitable investment for the long run.

But most pepole still need on-demand transportation, just not for as many long-distance trips. I expect the airlines to hold their own, slow-but-sensible growth for transit and rail passenger service (but only in the markets with enough volume and congestion to make it sustainable) and autos that will continue to get smaller, boxier, less-crashworthy, and so uncomfotable as to be unsuited for long trips. (We might also see more concern over those puddle-jumpers sharing the same highways with 40-ton freight-hauling mastodons, but that's a whole-'nuther expensive can of worms.)

It's in the hands of the politicians now, and politics is the art of promising everything to everybody, and delivering what fits -- usually wasting a ton of money in the process.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-26-2012 at 09:16 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top