U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-05-2013, 11:44 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804

Advertisements

But the horse-drawn streetcars would have been replaced by streetcars (which in turn were partially replaced by subways) anyway. Most horse-drawn streetcars were replaced by electric streetcars. Automobiles replaced horse and carriages not horse-drawn streetcars. Here are some images of New York City in 1920:

Herald Square | mcnyblog

Some horse drawn carriages, some cars, but traffic was light and slow enough pedestrians were also walking in the street.

A map of Boston's transit system, 1925:

1925_Boston_Elevated_Railway_Lines | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-05-2013, 12:01 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
But the horse-drawn streetcars would have been replaced by streetcars (which in turn were partially replaced by subways) anyway. Most horse-drawn streetcars were replaced by electric streetcars. Automobiles replaced horse and carriages not horse-drawn streetcars. Here are some images of New York City in 1920:

Herald Square | mcnyblog

Some horse drawn carriages, some cars, but traffic was light and slow enough pedestrians were also walking in the street.

A map of Boston's transit system, 1925:

1925_Boston_Elevated_Railway_Lines | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I was just responding to the horse manure issue.

In re: bicycles, their popularity declined by 1898. Bicycling did not become popular again until the 1960s.
Science of Cycling: A History of Bicycling Timeline | Exploratorium

My mom grew up on a farm. She and her sibs walked, not biked, ~ 1/2 mile to "country school" in the late 1920s-30s. In high school, they had a bus. They only lived a few miles from "town", but again, they walked, not biked to get there. By the time my aunt, the youngest was in HS, they had a car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2013, 12:22 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I was just responding to the horse manure issue.
I know, but I wanted add some more on 1920s cities and transportation.

Quote:
My mom grew up on a farm. She and her sibs walked, not biked, ~ 1/2 mile to "country school" in the late 1920s-30s. In high school, they had a bus. They only lived a few miles from "town", but again, they walked, not biked to get there. By the time my aunt, the youngest was in HS, they had a car.
Transportation in rural areas was rather different than transportation in urban areas so may not be comparable. Though if you look at the New York link I posted, there were no bicycles in the view but plenty of foot and other wheeled traffic. The same street (Broadway) now has a bike lane and dropping a streetview figure at random, I found a bicyclist:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Broad...196.79,,0,2.89

It looks like most of the buildings in the view would have been there in 1920, the view probably hasn't changed much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2013, 12:32 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Some bicycles ad from Britain in the 1920s:

* Vintage Bicycle Adverts: 1920s – 1950s « www.Oldbike.eu
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2013, 12:40 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I know, but I wanted add some more on 1920s cities and transportation.



Transportation in rural areas was rather different than transportation in urban areas so may not be comparable. Though if you look at the New York link I posted, there were no bicycles in the view but plenty of foot and other wheeled traffic. The same street (Broadway) now has a bike lane and dropping a streetview figure at random, I found a bicyclist:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Broad...196.79,,0,2.89

It looks like most of the buildings in the view would have been there in 1920, the view probably hasn't changed much.
Which kind of disproves the point that the major form of "on-demand" transportation was the bicycle. I have a feeling the major "on-demand" source was the old "shoe leather express".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2013, 03:05 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Since transit use was much higher, transit frequency could be higher, leading to frequencies that feel nearly "on demand".
However one of the problems with early transit is its privatization. Basically there is more transit, but not efficiently laid out---i.e. Routes competing with each other.

In Chicago when the CTA took over in the 40ies they closed a lot of stations and got rid of lines to rationalize the system(i.e. Private transit had a lot of overlap and the EL which was supposed to be rapid transit was hardly faster than the street cars). They also modernized the fleet to all metal cars. In Chicago the lake street el has much faster times today than in the past due to fewer stations..the rationalization changed it’s run from 35 mins to 24.

In addition modern expressways opened up space to allow rapid transit to go places it didn’t go in the 20ies. The Dan Ryan and Part of the O’hare line that heads to the airport. A side effect of that privtization in Chicago is the fact that certian lines are very close to each other(Green line is near Blue line(which the Congress part is a replacement of an elevated train) and both not that far away from the Pink line on the west side.


Also it didn't cover the whole city. The Red line(Dan Ryan built to handle the high demand on the south side main line and go further south----a job it did too well). Even today the El does not reach the south boarder of Chicago. The Midway likewise built recently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2013, 03:17 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Which kind of disproves the point that the major form of "on-demand" transportation was the bicycle. I have a feeling the major "on-demand" source was the old "shoe leather express".
Yeap. The US at one time had more street cars than any other place in the world. The bicycle might have been more useful elsewhere but I suspect in major cities(as today) most people used the bus/street car and walked to their desitntion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2013, 03:39 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Yeap. The US at one time had more street cars than any other place in the world. The bicycle might have been more useful elsewhere but I suspect in major cities(as today) most people used the bus/street car and walked to their desitntion.
Maybe true in the US not true in some spots in Europe:

Copenhagen: Bike City for more than a century -The official website of Denmark

In Copenhagen the popularity of the bike evolved, especially through the 1920’ties and 1930’ties. In the streets of Copenhagen you would find Copenhageners from all social classes biking side by side. The middleclass mother rode her bike home from the grocery store, the wealthy bank Director took his bike on his way to work and the young craftsman transported his goods by bike.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2013, 10:43 AM
 
32,436 posts, read 16,612,446 times
Reputation: 17445
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Maybe true in the US not true in some spots in Europe:

Copenhagen: Bike City for more than a century -The official website of Denmark

In Copenhagen the popularity of the bike evolved, especially through the 1920’ties and 1930’ties. In the streets of Copenhagen you would find Copenhageners from all social classes biking side by side. The middleclass mother rode her bike home from the grocery store, the wealthy bank Director took his bike on his way to work and the young craftsman transported his goods by bike.
This still happens, actually. MPs will ride their bicycles to Parliament, even.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2013, 11:46 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,793 posts, read 10,707,607 times
Reputation: 2515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Which kind of disproves the point that the major form of "on-demand" transportation was the bicycle. I have a feeling the major "on-demand" source was the old "shoe leather express".

first of all in #152 I was A. Not specifically referring to NYC B. Was referring the decades PRIOR to the commercialization of the automobile, not to the 1920s C. speaking of the fastest growing, not the "major form"

As for street cars, the electric street car was invented in the 1880s, IIUC, and replaced horse drawn street cars from 1890 on ward.

had the automobile not been invented, its likely that the horse manure problem in the largest cities could have been addressed with street car electrification, bicycles, etc.

I will note that superfreakonimics has often been in error on a range of topics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top