U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-08-2013, 10:11 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Can't speak for Long Island but in Northern IL there has definitely been an increase in rail travel between suburbs as compared to travel to downtown Chicago. Gas getting too expensive?
I was comparing today to 1940, when car ownership was much less, much of the population of outer suburbs of the larger cities was near railroad stations, and suburbs often lack amnetities compared to the center city.

I think Long Island has seen an increase of suburb to suburb commutes as well. But the trend is larger in the suburbs to north of the city and east of the Hudson River (serviced by Metro North). The geography of the region has more development concentrated along train lines than Long Island, and a few sizeable job centers near train stations such as White Plains and Stamford, which both of their own small skyline. The graph in the article shows suburb to suburb commuting doubled on Metro North and traditional suburb to center city commuting makes up only half the ridership:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/ny...17commute.html

looking at figure 5, suburban job growth can't explain the change if it's been in the last decade.

http://wagner.nyu.edu/rudincenter/fi...nCommuting.pdf

Most suburbs had relatively poor job growth relative to the metro.

As to Detroit, I'm familiar with its population numbers. I think St. Louis among other has had a similar population loss.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2013, 03:47 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
As for annexation and Chicago's growth, this series of maps show the changes in Chicago's growth, city limit changes and rapid transit lines.

Chicago Growth, 1850-1990
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2013, 07:13 PM
 
1,189 posts, read 1,817,135 times
Reputation: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
I would like to introduce the data and study shown below that somebody else provided on another forum. This is the pre-war (1940) population of the 20 largest U.S. metros, and consequently, the 20 largest cities in terms of pre-war housing stock and pre-suburbia (as we know it today) urbanity.

I think it offers a good starting point when discussing the feeling of "urban-ness" between cities, particularly those that may not have the population to support high metro marks or density statistics, yet feel very urban nonetheless (e.g. STL, BUF or CLE).

Enjoy!


1. New York ----- 10,135,000
2. Chicago ------- 4,210,000
3. Philadelphia ---- 2,538,000
4. Los Angeles ---- 2,268,000
5. Detroit --------- 2,041,000
6. Boston --------- 1,746,000
7. San Francisco -- 1,156,000
8. Pittsburgh ------ 1,134,000
9. St. Louis ------- 1,102,000
10. Cleveland ----- 1,079,000

11. Baltimore -------- 992,000
12. Minneapolis ------ 886,000
13. Washington ------ 800,000
14. Buffalo ---------- 708,000
15. Milwaukee ------- 705,000
16. Kansas City ------ 632,000
17. Cincinnati -------- 559,000
18. New Orleans ----- 557,000
19. Houston --------- 471,000
20. Seattle ---------- 451,000

source: http://www.peakbagger.com/pbgeog/histmetropop.aspx
Wow. Houston and Seattle have grown. Washington has also grown metrowise. Th
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2013, 08:08 PM
 
12,326 posts, read 15,260,581 times
Reputation: 8130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I was comparing today to 1940, when car ownership was much less, much of the population of outer suburbs of the larger cities was near railroad stations, and suburbs often lack amnetities compared to the center city.

I think Long Island has seen an increase of suburb to suburb commutes as well. But the trend is larger in the suburbs to north of the city and east of the Hudson River (serviced by Metro North). The geography of the region has more development concentrated along train lines than Long Island, and a few sizeable job centers near train stations such as White Plains and Stamford, which both of their own small skyline. The graph in the article shows suburb to suburb commuting doubled on Metro North and traditional suburb to center city commuting makes up only half the ridership:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/ny...17commute.html

looking at figure 5, suburban job growth can't explain the change if it's been in the last decade.

http://wagner.nyu.edu/rudincenter/fi...nCommuting.pdf

Most suburbs had relatively poor job growth relative to the metro.

As to Detroit, I'm familiar with its population numbers. I think St. Louis among other has had a similar population loss.
Wow, Metro-North has a majority of nontraditional riders? It's ahead of (Chicago ) Metra so far.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 08:47 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Wow, Metro-North has a majority of nontraditional riders? It's ahead of (Chicago ) Metra so far.
Yea, commuter rail is a bit of an inaccurate name for railroads that get labelled that way, especially Metro North. Its rail that connect neighboring suburbs and small cities to the big city, it's not just for commuting. In the inner half (first 30 miles or so) of metro north lines, the trains run every half hour off peak, so its scarcely just for commuting. It's used for more than just commuting; "regional rail" is a better description. I've used Metro North to go hiking. Most of these railroads are remnants of larger passenger rail systems that got cut (though, for Metro North, 2 out of the 3 main lines continue as Amtrak service); vestiges of the large train network surrounding US cities that used to exist.

In England, the distinction between commuter rail and other rail is less distinct. London's commuter rail is more extensive and frequent than NYC, and often run by the same carrier as long distance trains but priced the same as the rapid transit for the same distance trips (operates on a zone system there).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 10:52 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 1,546,939 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yea, commuter rail is a bit of an inaccurate name for railroads that get labelled that way, especially Metro North. Its rail that connect neighboring suburbs and small cities to the big city, it's not just for commuting. In the inner half (first 30 miles or so) of metro north lines, the trains run every half hour off peak, so its scarcely just for commuting. It's used for more than just commuting; "regional rail" is a better description. I've used Metro North to go hiking. Most of these railroads are remnants of larger passenger rail systems that got cut (though, for Metro North, 2 out of the 3 main lines continue as Amtrak service); vestiges of the large train network surrounding US cities that used to exist.

In England, the distinction between commuter rail and other rail is less distinct. London's commuter rail is more extensive and frequent than NYC, and often run by the same carrier as long distance trains but priced the same as the rapid transit for the same distance trips (operates on a zone system there).
I can see why you'd call it Regional Rail, that's what they call it in Philadelphia. The problem with that term is when heavy rail systems--the DC Metro, BART--go well out into the region. In the transit industry, commuter rail indicates widely spaced stations and power other than a third rail (overhead wire, diesel).

It's fabulous that you can take Metro North to a hiking trail. You can take transit to nature in other places, but usually it's harder.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 11:01 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
I can see why you'd call it Regional Rail, that's what they call it in Philadelphia. The problem with that term is when heavy rail systems--the DC Metro, BART--go well out into the region. In the transit industry, commuter rail indicates widely spaced stations and power other than a third rail (overhead wire, diesel).
Most NYC commuter rail is by third rail. In fact certain subway trains are capable of running on the LIRR platforms.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 09:32 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 1,546,939 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Most NYC commuter rail is by third rail. In fact certain subway trains are capable of running on the LIRR platforms.
Interesting, though MTA never seems to do that. In that case, we're back to station spacing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2013, 09:47 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
I meant to write certain subway trains are capable of running on the LIRR tracks. Obviously not the platforms!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2013, 10:49 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Can't speak for Long Island but in Northern IL there has definitely been an increase in rail travel between suburbs as compared to travel to downtown Chicago. Gas getting too expensive? I notice nobody commented on my shocked reaction to Detroit's 1940 population.
For Long Island, one of the factors preventing from being used for reverse commutes is the the lack of third track on the main line. NIMBYism and commuter rail:

The L.I.R.R. wants to add a third track along this 10-mile stretch to shorten commutes, reduce car traffic and take a significant step toward a transit-oriented renaissance. Itís an incredibly simple solution, in theory. But in Nassau, the third track is a third rail, stymied by ferocious not-in-my-backyard protesters who have frightened lawmakers into mumbling inaction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/op...sit.html?_r=2&
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top