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Old 01-21-2013, 12:49 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
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Here's a somewhat simplistic map of growing seasons if you want to go for what can be fresh in your garden at what time of year instead of worrying much about preservation:


It's simplistic in that it covers just the most common fruits and vegetables and does not take into consideration the huge varieties within those common fruits and vegetables which can have substantially different seasons nor does it include, understandably for an infographic, the many other sorts of plants that can be grown instead of just the most common.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:49 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Why do you assume she doesn't know what she's talking about? I've had excess tomatoes for years when I lived in the suburbs (excess as in more than my family and I can eat). One thing we did was give quite a bit away which is a nice enough thing to do. I didn't have much issue or cost overload in regards to preserving them since I already had large pots for making big batches of stew and boiling crustaceans. Skinning tomatoes is actually a quick process if you blanche them and then dip them into ice water immediately. Canning jars can be reused over and over and you can buy reusable lids. A pressure cooker isn't strictly necessary (for most people, I understand it's different for you in Denver), but if you have one, its usage isn't at all restricted to just canning so I don't know about allocating the full cost of to just canning. The fact that making sauce requires a lot of tomatoes is fine since you're already under the assumption of having a surfeit of tomatoes.

A cheaper and easier solution is to just dry them which is cheap and stores very easily. The other thing is to not plant so many tomato plants or zucchini plants, but instead get a bigger mix of different kinds of plants planted in smaller quantities, with emphasis on getting a good mix that produce edibles or other utilitarian stuff at different times of the year. Why would you plant a dozen tomato plants if you figured that would be too much? Why wouldn't you grow some garlic, basil, carrots, or chives instead of more tomato plants?

I admit, I'm a bit puzzled by your reactions to all of this. It seems kind of over the top. What exactly is so irksome about that article?
Thanks for the tomato skinning lesson. I have been canning/freezing tomatoes for 30 years now. Never knew that. ( Sarc) If you note I said the jars can be used over, until they break or the rims get nicked. A good way to give yourself food poisoning is to use poor equipment. I haven't seen reusable lids since my mother canned back in the 60s. The lids available today all have that gummy stuff on the rim that seals to the jar and is disposable. I know you don't need a pressure cooker at lower altitudes; you need a boiling water bath canner. Here's the cost of this utensil, and it's only useful for canning, unlike a pressure cooker, which, yes, can be used for other cooking.

https://www.google.com/search?q=boil...w=1496&bih=887

$20 and up. Probably a more expensive one will last longer.

I have to ask if you've ever canned tomatoes. After you skin and quarter them, there is a lot of juice that escapes from the tomatoes. You can can the juice, but you're not canning tomatoes then. To get enough tomatoes to fill a 16 oz can like you would buy at Safeway, Piggly-Wiggly, Hinky-Dinky, Whole Foods or wherever, takes way more than 16 oz of tomatoes off the vine, probably twice that in weight. IT'S ALSO A LOT OF WORK! I know it's a conundrum, you need a lot of tomatoes, yet unless you have a huge amount, you only get a few jars out of all that work. I gave up canning as the pressure cooker turns the tomatoes almost to mush, so I freeze them on a cookie sheet and then bag them. You can freeze the little cherry tomatoes with the skin on.

We give tomatoes away. I gave away a lot this fall, as our daughter got married Sept. 8 and I was tied up with wedding plans at the height of the season. We also didn't have a real big crop to make all that work worthwhile, what with our drought.

Regarding zucchini, you only need one plant to get an excessive amount of vegetable, and those baseball bat size zukes could feed a football team. Someone is always giving them away, too.

What irked me about the article was that it is unrealistic. What's the big deal with putting the vegetable garden in the back yard, and having some nice ornamentals in the front? Fruit trees are a lot of work too. They are very insect prone. Someone planted an apricot tree in the front yard of our old house; when DH cut it down as it was dying, it was infested with bugs. It also irked me that as we had been talking about canning, etc, in the thread, that I went to the effort to look up the cost of the items one would need (let alone one's time; I have to take a vacation day plus use up weekends to do it in the fall), I was told that was "not aligned with the meaning of this thread". Why is that? Is it because it's not so "Kumbaya-ish, and implies a lot of work? Just what IS the meaning of this thread then?
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Thanks for the tomato skinning lesson. I have been canning/freezing tomatoes for 30 years now. Never knew that. ( Sarc) If you note I said the jars can be used over, until they break or the rims get nicked. A good way to give yourself food poisoning is to use poor equipment. I haven't seen reusable lids since my mother canned back in the 60s. The lids available today all have that gummy stuff on the rim that seals to the jar and is disposable. I know you don't need a pressure cooker at lower altitudes; you need a boiling water bath canner. Here's the cost of this utensil, and it's only useful for canning, unlike a pressure cooker, which, yes, can be used for other cooking.

https://www.google.com/search?q=boil...w=1496&bih=887

$20 and up. Probably a more expensive one will last longer.

I have to ask if you've ever canned tomatoes. After you skin and quarter them, there is a lot of juice that escapes from the tomatoes. You can can the juice, but you're not canning tomatoes then. To get enough tomatoes to fill a 16 oz can like you would buy at Safeway, Piggly-Wiggly, Hinky-Dinky, Whole Foods or wherever, takes way more than 16 oz of tomatoes off the vine, probably twice that in weight. IT'S ALSO A LOT OF WORK! I know it's a conundrum, you need a lot of tomatoes, yet unless you have a huge amount, you only get a few jars out of all that work. I gave up canning as the pressure cooker turns the tomatoes almost to mush, so I freeze them on a cookie sheet and then bag them. You can freeze the little cherry tomatoes with the skin on.

We give tomatoes away. I gave away a lot this fall, as our daughter got married Sept. 8 and I was tied up with wedding plans at the height of the season. We also didn't have a real big crop to make all that work worthwhile, what with our drought.

Regarding zucchini, you only need one plant to get an excessive amount of vegetable, and those baseball bat size zukes could feed a football team. Someone is always giving them away, too.

What irked me about the article was that it is unrealistic. What's the big deal with putting the vegetable garden in the back yard, and having some nice ornamentals in the front? Fruit trees are a lot of work too. They are very insect prone. Someone planted an apricot tree in the front yard of our old house; when DH cut it down as it was dying, it was infested with bugs. It also irked me that as we had been talking about canning, etc, in the thread, that I went to the effort to look up the cost of the items one would need (let alone one's time; I have to take a vacation day plus use up weekends to do it in the fall), I was told that was "not aligned with the meaning of this thread". Why is that? Is it because it's not so "Kumbaya-ish, and implies a lot of work? Just what IS the meaning of this thread then?
Well, given how much of a hullabaloo you're putting up out about what's a really easy thing to do, I don't see why I should expect you to have actually canned before. It's not so expensive and it's not that arduous. Also, it's not the 60s anymore and you can get reusable canning lids that are actually meant to be reusable. Great that you actually have experience and you know alternatives to canning.

I tended not to have a problem with the zucchinis because I ate a lot of the flowers, because zucchini flowers are really delicious. I don't think anyone's saying it's not work, but people who would actually be interested in gardening and doing this are going to have to put up the commensurate amount of the work so I'm not sure what the issue is. One thing you can do to not get bug-infested is to actually do a kind of cross-cropping of companion pants are trying to encourage certain birds or insects to proliferate. It's a bit of figuring out and not worth the effort to some--in which case, the entire idea of having a front garden turned from lawn to garden is moot since they probably aren't going to be any more inclined to make it work in the back garden either. Also, be mindful that the article wasn't about forcing anyone to put a garden in the front yard--it was about encouraging it. If anything, it's other people enforcing zoning restrictions on them that's disallowing those who want to do such with their front yard what they want from doing so. You've got the argument backwards in that case. Overall, you just seem to be a big ol' grump. It's okay though because we both like gardening so I will high five you. ^5
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,371 posts, read 59,827,196 times
Reputation: 54016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I haven't seen reusable lids since my mother canned back in the 60s.
Off topic, but ... Tattler lids. I haven't tried them yet, but a lot of people swear by them:

TATTLER Reusable Canning Lids

You still need the metal screw bands, but the lids and rubber rings themselves are reusable. No doubt the lids outlast the rubber rings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Well, given how much of a hullabaloo you're putting up out about what's a really easy thing to do, I don't see why I should expect you to have actually canned before.
You missed the part where she said she gave up canning and freezes instead?
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Well, given how much of a hullabaloo you're putting up out about what's a really easy thing to do, I don't see why I should expect you to have actually canned before. It's not so expensive and it's not that arduous. Also, it's not the 60s anymore and you can get reusable canning lids that are actually meant to be reusable. Great that you actually have experience and you know alternatives to canning.

I tended not to have a problem with the zucchinis because I ate a lot of the flowers, because zucchini flowers are really delicious. I don't think anyone's saying it's not work, but people who would actually be interested in gardening and doing this are going to have to put up the commensurate amount of the work so I'm not sure what the issue is. One thing you can do to not get bug-infested is to actually do a kind of cross-cropping of companion pants are trying to encourage certain birds or insects to proliferate. It's a bit of figuring out and not worth the effort to some--in which case, the entire idea of having a front garden turned from lawn to garden is moot since they probably aren't going to be any more inclined to make it work in the back garden either. Also, be mindful that the article wasn't about forcing anyone to put a garden in the front yard--it was about encouraging it. If anything, it's other people enforcing zoning restrictions on them that's disallowing those who want to do such with their front yard what they want from doing so. You've got the argument backwards in that case. Overall, you just seem to be a big ol' grump. It's okay though because we both like gardening so I will high five you. ^5
Maybe if you had read the thread. Here's a post of mine from Jan. 10:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, I do that, though now I usually quarter and freeze my tomatoes. At this altitude, you have to process them so long (and in a pressure cooker) that they're like tomato puree when you can them.
Thanks, Ohiogirl81!

OyCrumbler, you may think I'm a grump (my kids would agree), but here we were talking about canning, and I went to the effort to post what equipment you need and how much it would cost, and the OP came back on to say that wasn't the point of the thread. Well, excuse me! Who's the mod here? Not the OP! And I will tell you, in my years of gardening, canning and freezing, I have talked to plenty of people who had no clue what preserving the food involved. Someone once told me she'd rather get into freezing b/c it seemed easier to just put stuff in bags and throw them in the freezer. Freezing veggies IS easier than canning them, but it's not that simple. The veggies need to be cleaned and blanched first, or they're no good when you get them out for your Christmas dinner. I'd wager an hour's pay at least that the author of the article doesn't know that, either.

IIRC (I'm not going to look it up) there was some issue in Boulder, CO with someone growing vegetables in the green strip between the sidewalk and the road, regarding just whose vegetables they were. That is, of course, a different issue than growing veggies on your own property. I well recall an issue here in my town of Louisville, where people were growing vegetables on the open space. The city made them stop b/c they said that wasn't an appropriate use of open space. Open space is supposed to be "au naturel", which here in Colorado means brown dead grass most of the year. That, too, is a different issue than growing on one's own property.

BTW, we grew some popcorn this summer past. DH had to order it from Amazon b/c we couldn't find seed popcorn anywhere, even at the farm stores. It would have been way cheaper to just buy some popcorn, but it was fun.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:12 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Here's a somewhat simplistic map of growing seasons if you want to go for what can be fresh in your garden at what time of year instead of worrying much about preservation:


It's simplistic in that it covers just the most common fruits and vegetables and does not take into consideration the huge varieties within those common fruits and vegetables which can have substantially different seasons nor does it include, understandably for an infographic, the many other sorts of plants that can be grown instead of just the most common.
Funny, they've got Wyoming in yellow rather than CO! I think they've just lost my cred! And unless you plant maybe ONE tomato plant, and two green bean plants, and very small quantities of other things, you're going to need to do something with the excess. You won't be able to use it all.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe if you had read the thread. Here's a post of mine from Jan. 10:



Thanks, Ohiogirl81!

OyCrumbler, you may think I'm a grump (my kids would agree), but here we were talking about canning, and I went to the effort to post what equipment you need and how much it would cost, and the OP came back on to say that wasn't the point of the thread. Well, excuse me! Who's the mod here? Not the OP! And I will tell you, in my years of gardening, canning and freezing, I have talked to plenty of people who had no clue what preserving the food involved. Someone once told me she'd rather get into freezing b/c it seemed easier to just put stuff in bags and throw them in the freezer. Freezing veggies IS easier than canning them, but it's not that simple. The veggies need to be cleaned and blanched first, or they're no good when you get them out for your Christmas dinner. I'd wager an hour's pay at least that the author of the article doesn't know that, either.

IIRC (I'm not going to look it up) there was some issue in Boulder, CO with someone growing vegetables in the green strip between the sidewalk and the road, regarding just whose vegetables they were. That is, of course, a different issue than growing veggies on your own property. I well recall an issue here in my town of Louisville, where people were growing vegetables on the open space. The city made them stop b/c they said that wasn't an appropriate use of open space. Open space is supposed to be "au naturel", which here in Colorado means brown dead grass most of the year. That, too, is a different issue than growing on one's own property.

BTW, we grew some popcorn this summer past. DH had to order it from Amazon b/c we couldn't find seed popcorn anywhere, even at the farm stores. It would have been way cheaper to just buy some popcorn, but it was fun.
Yea, I know you said it but you made it sound so difficult that it didn't seem to be true.

So, people want to grow food in their front lawns. It's fine. Stop being such a crank.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Funny, they've got Wyoming in yellow rather than CO! I think they've just lost my cred! And unless you plant maybe ONE tomato plant, and two green bean plants, and very small quantities of other things, you're going to need to do something with the excess. You won't be able to use it all.
Yea, definitely growing one makes a lot more sense than the dozen unless you're an italian nonna. That's why I said growing a large mix is a lot more fun, though back home there were several family members living nearby and we'd share in on it with people growing different things for the most part save for general use herbs and chilis. One of them also grew their own soy and made their own soy milk and owned two chickens (all in a suburban yard--probably not allowed via zoning, but no one bothered them).
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, I know you said it but you made it sound so difficult that it didn't seem to be true.

So, people want to grow food in their front lawns. It's fine. Stop being such a crank.
You could stop with the personal crap. If I weren't such a nice person, I'd report you for namecalling. G*d knows, people have gotten on my case about that. Where did I EVER say I didn't think people should grow vegetables in their front lawn if they want? I don't get it, ie, why you can't use the back, but whatever.

No comment about the confusion of Colorado and Wyoming?

Here is the only other comment I made about growing veggies in the front yard, from Jan. 14. I have not changed my opinion in the past week:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't think it matters if you grow food in your front or your back yard. We have a garden, and some years we have enough food to "put up" quite a bit, some years not.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You could stop with the personal crap. If I weren't such a nice person, I'd report you for namecalling. G*d knows, people have gotten on my case about that. Where did I EVER say I didn't think people should grow vegetables in their front lawn if they want? I don't get it, ie, why you can't use the back, but whatever.

No comment about the confusion of Colorado and Wyoming?

Here is the only other comment I made about growing veggies in the front yard, from Jan. 14. I have not changed my opinion in the past week:
No one has ever said you can't use the back and it doesn't seem like you were really arguing that. You can use both if you want, it's just sometimes people are restricted from using the front. If you have nothing against people using the front lawn then what are you arguing? That gardening takes effort? Well, yea.

How all this went to a dozen tomato plants in the front yard (and why would you grow a dozen tomato plants?), the costs of canning, growing too much of one thing, or any of it was almost entirely lead by you. If the people gardening aren't accounting for that, then they will find out soon enough but there are people who have done so successfully and I don't think anyone's been pushing for them to fail. If someone wants to enjoy gardening and growing as much as possible of their own in their own yard, then all the power to them.

They screwed up on the coloring. What am I going to say about that? Someone there screwed up obviously and I'm guessing that the actual plant chart was likely for Colorado and not Wyoming.

What was so screwy about the original article though? Also, why not have ornamentals that you can also snag a bit and eat? Roses are tasty. Rosehips are tasty. There are a bunch of other ornamentals that are actually quite edible as I've mentioned before.

Also, how about the zucchini flower suggestion? Also, if the zucchinis already as big as a baseball bat by the time you pluck it then it's not going to be all that palatable. You can get them while they're small or as flowers and not have to worry about getting ridiculous amounts of tougher, less tasty giant zucchinis unless someone went on to plant something like a dozen zucchini plants win which case I'd say that is a mistake unless for the most ardent of zucchini lovers.
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