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Old 08-29-2015, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,894 posts, read 7,654,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Sure a county is - but you aren't labeling the entire county as "suburb" and you obviously did not read the previous statement. As I previously stated: If the area is an unincorporated area within a county then that area is not a political subdivision - it might be contained within a political subdivision such as a county but it is not itself a political subdivision. You should know this because you even used the term unincorporated to describe areas within a county. Save the emoticon for yourself.
This varies from state to state, but in Ohio, counties are subdivided into townships. Even though these townships aren't incorporated, they still have their own government. How much government, I think, depends on the population of the township. But I believe they have 3 elected trustees, at minimum.

In Mahoning County, there used to be a Youngstown Township. But eventually, it was completely annexed into the city of Youngstown, and so the township no longer exists. The neighboring townships of Poland and Canfield still exist, but at their centers, there are Poland and Canfield villages, respectively. These villages are incorporated, and if their population ever exceeded 5000, they'd automatically be called cities. Strangely enough, the township of Boardman, which is between Canfield and Poland and directly south of Youngstown, and happens to be the second most populous political subdivision in Mahoning County, never incorporated. So, all of it still falls under the jurisdiction of 3 elected trustees. But, because of its size, this township govt. has grown to the size of what you'd find in an equivalent small city. These townships/villages (Poland, Boardman, Canfield et. al.) are all suburbs of Youngstown. There are other townships--on the other side of the county--that are not, IMO, suburbs of Youngstown. Even though they are unincorporated, they are not close enough, and not economically intertwined enough with Youngstown to be its suburbs; they are just rural communities.
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Old 08-30-2015, 07:45 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,348,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
This varies from state to state, but in Ohio, counties are subdivided into townships. Even though these townships aren't incorporated, they still have their own government. How much government, I think, depends on the population of the township. But I believe they have 3 elected trustees, at minimum.

In Mahoning County, there used to be a Youngstown Township. But eventually, it was completely annexed into the city of Youngstown, and so the township no longer exists. The neighboring townships of Poland and Canfield still exist, but at their centers, there are Poland and Canfield villages, respectively. These villages are incorporated, and if their population ever exceeded 5000, they'd automatically be called cities. Strangely enough, the township of Boardman, which is between Canfield and Poland and directly south of Youngstown, and happens to be the second most populous political subdivision in Mahoning County, never incorporated. So, all of it still falls under the jurisdiction of 3 elected trustees. But, because of its size, this township govt. has grown to the size of what you'd find in an equivalent small city. These townships/villages (Poland, Boardman, Canfield et. al.) are all suburbs of Youngstown. There are other townships--on the other side of the county--that are not, IMO, suburbs of Youngstown. Even though they are unincorporated, they are not close enough, and not economically intertwined enough with Youngstown to be its suburbs; they are just rural communities.
So again even though another poster has stated her position that identity of an area as a political subdivision has nothing to do with classification as suburban or urban, folks continue to try to designate political subdivisions as "suburban" or "urban". Obviously folksi in this forum in particular feel compelled to put meaningless, ill-defined labels on entire political subdivisions.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,371 posts, read 59,807,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Sure a county is - but you aren't labeling the entire county as "suburb"
I'm not labeling anything; I'm helping you understand some definitions. But I no longer wish to deal with your zeal for obfuscation. Have a nice day.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:27 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
So again even though another poster has stated her position that identity of an area as a political subdivision has nothing to do with classification as suburban or urban, folks continue to try to designate political subdivisions as "suburban" or "urban".
How is that a contradiction? The identity of being a political subdivision has nothing to do with its urban or not; a political subdivision can be either suburban or urban.
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Old 09-01-2015, 11:32 AM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,348,447 times
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
How is that a contradiction? The identity of being a political subdivision has nothing to do with its urban or not; a political subdivision can be either suburban or urban.
because based upon the definition de jour of "suburb", the political boundary is not a demarcation of any kind - so why insist upon associating the label with a political subdivision. Even worse, the obvious objective is to relegate the entire territory within the political subdivision into one category. About the only thing consistent among urbanophiles is that "suburb" describes something they don't like. When it comes to actually providing an objective definition of "suburb", however, the "objectivity" typically disappears and the discussion reminds one of the conversation between Humpty Dumpty and Alice:
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

-Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
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Old 09-01-2015, 11:52 AM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,348,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
This varies from state to state, but in Ohio, counties are subdivided into townships. Even though these townships aren't incorporated, they still have their own government. How much government, I think, depends on the population of the township. But I believe they have 3 elected trustees, at minimum.

In Mahoning County, there used to be a Youngstown Township. But eventually, it was completely annexed into the city of Youngstown, and so the township no longer exists. The neighboring townships of Poland and Canfield still exist, but at their centers, there are Poland and Canfield villages, respectively. These villages are incorporated, and if their population ever exceeded 5000, they'd automatically be called cities. Strangely enough, the township of Boardman, which is between Canfield and Poland and directly south of Youngstown, and happens to be the second most populous political subdivision in Mahoning County, never incorporated. So, all of it still falls under the jurisdiction of 3 elected trustees. But, because of its size, this township govt. has grown to the size of what you'd find in an equivalent small city. These townships/villages (Poland, Boardman, Canfield et. al.) are all suburbs of Youngstown. There are other townships--on the other side of the county--that are not, IMO, suburbs of Youngstown. Even though they are unincorporated, they are not close enough, and not economically intertwined enough with Youngstown to be its suburbs; they are just rural communities.

...and the entire state is divided into counties as well. However, since "suburb" is independent of political boundary why are you trying to categorize the area within political subdivisions as 100% "suburban" or not? You are using the wrong "container" and what it really boils down to is urbanophiles believe "urban" areas are superior and will seek to re-define "suburban" as they see fit to describe areas they perceive as inferior.
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:41 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
155 posts, read 191,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Why should history dictate whether an area is a satellite or a suburb or something else?
Also a municipality is not generally considered a "suburb". The definition used for suburb above has no relation to the term "suburb".
Okay, I should have used the term "city" instead of "municipality." My bad.

In the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, almost every suburb is an incorporated municipality.

I wasn't thinking of other metro areas like Houston where many suburbs are unincorporated.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:24 AM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,348,447 times
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Originally Posted by PeopleAreStrange View Post
Okay, I should have used the term "city" instead of "municipality." My bad.

In the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, almost every suburb is an incorporated municipality.

I wasn't thinking of other metro areas like Houston where many suburbs are unincorporated.
If it is an incorporated municipality or city then why refer to it as a suburb? It is a city in its own right.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:18 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
...and the entire state is divided into counties as well. However, since "suburb" is independent of political boundary why are you trying to categorize the area within political subdivisions as 100% "suburban" or not? You are using the wrong "container" and what it really boils down to is urbanophiles believe "urban" areas are superior and will seek to re-define "suburban" as they see fit to describe areas they perceive as inferior.
You've never people use suburb as a positive?
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:21 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
If it is an incorporated municipality or city then why refer to it as a suburb? It is a city in its own right.
That would be nuts and meaningless. Here, the entire state is divided into incorporate municipalities. No one here would claim Massachusetts is devoid of suburbs. There's a large difference in layout, density and architecture among other things between places that are more "urban" and those that aren't. And the municipalities that are older cities tend to have certain similarities, demographic patterns and yes, often worse schools.
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