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Old 09-26-2015, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
How do you determine whether a town was ever "independent" or not? Every suburb of DC and Philadelphia I can think of off the top of my head was an independent town at some point; while they may be bedroom suburbs today, these suburbs were built around a town.
I guess this has to be determined on a case-by-case basis, and the extent to which independent towns became suburbs, probably varies by region.

Revisiting Mahoning County, Canfield and Poland have original village centers--dating from the 18th and 19th centuries--that still exist, to an extent. But, Boardman was just a collection of farms that connected Poland and Canfield, until housing development started creeping in from the north, (a little in the 1920s, but really taking off in the 50s and 60s) and it became a suburb of Youngstown.
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:44 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I guess this has to be determined on a case-by-case basis, and the extent to which independent towns became suburbs, probably varies by region.

Revisiting Mahoning County, Canfield and Poland have original village centers--dating from the 18th and 19th centuries--that still exist, to an extent. But, Boardman was just a collection of farms that connected Poland and Canfield, until housing development started creeping in from the north, (a little in the 1920s, but really taking off in the 50s and 60s) and it became a suburb of Youngstown.
I've been meaning to tell you-we sort of went through Youngstown this summer. We went to a wedding in Akron at the Stan Hywet mansion, then went to Pittsburgh to see my brother.
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Old 09-27-2015, 12:40 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
How do you determine whether a town was ever "independent" or not? Every suburb of DC and Philadelphia I can think of off the top of my head was an independent town at some point; while they may be bedroom suburbs today, these suburbs were built around a town.
Perhaps by looking a population history and some knowledge of urban area growth? For example, here's Burlington, MA. There was a small population, but it was a rural village until about 1930. And then it boomed in the postwar at the same time development on the fringes of the developed urban area of Boston grew rapidly outward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlin...s#Demographics

Lowell is technically part of the Boston urban area. But reached its population peak in 1920 and stagnated near that number since; in between Boston and Lowell (25 miles from Boston) at the time were small rural villages rather than continuous dense development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowell...s#Demographics

On the other hand, Malden about 5 miles north of Boston, grew steadily with most of its population increase from 1890 to 1930 and then stagnant since (presumably because it got built and new population growth required demolishing old housing with denser housing at the same time family size decreased).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malden...s#Demographics

There was continuous development from downtown Boston to Malden at the time, it was at the edge of an expanding urban area. So, I would say Lowell was clearly independent. Malden and especially Burlington less so.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:26 PM
 
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I suppose no place wants to admit it is a suburb, even if it is adjacent to the Center City, has a large portion of its working population commuting there and/or a large percentage of its workforce commuting from Center City. If incorporated as a City rather than a Village and a high percentage of lower income residents it may have a leg to stand on.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:44 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
I suppose no place wants to admit it is a suburb
Eh. I can't imagine Long Island avoiding the description "suburb"
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,513 posts, read 9,049,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
I suppose no place wants to admit it is a suburb, even if it is adjacent to the Center City, has a large portion of its working population commuting there and/or a large percentage of its workforce commuting from Center City. If incorporated as a City rather than a Village and a high percentage of lower income residents it may have a leg to stand on.
True, but some places function more or less as satellite cities. Elgin Illinois, Waukegan Illinois and even Gary Indiana are all more or less satellite cities than they are actual suburbs.

Waukegan is actually the county seat of Lake County, and Waukegan and Elgin are almost as old as Chicago itself. Most of the other towns between Waukegan and Chicago and Elgin and Chicago easily land the title of suburb, in my opinion and experience. A few possible exceptions would be Aurora, and Evanston. I'm sure there are others.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
I suppose no place wants to admit it is a suburb, even if it is adjacent to the Center City, has a large portion of its working population commuting there and/or a large percentage of its workforce commuting from Center City. If incorporated as a City rather than a Village and a high percentage of lower income residents it may have a leg to stand on.
Maybe I'm missing/misunderstanding your point, but most municipalities, at least in Ohio, incorporate for pragmatic reasons: they may incorporate to prevent annexation by the larger neighboring city, they may want to levy an income tax, etc. Because most people are going to call them suburbs anyway, whether or not they are incorporated, I doubt that factors into their decision to incorporate.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:19 AM
 
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So what's the purpose of attributing the term "suburb" to an area given the lack of agreement as to what the term means? Seems like a attempts to find a means to some end by word game.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:44 PM
 
12,291 posts, read 15,187,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Maybe I'm missing/misunderstanding your point, but most municipalities, at least in Ohio, incorporate for pragmatic reasons: they may incorporate to prevent annexation by the larger neighboring city, they may want to levy an income tax, etc. Because most people are going to call them suburbs anyway, whether or not they are incorporated, I doubt that factors into their decision to incorporate.
Not all States allow cities or villages to tax incomes, but most prevent annexation of a incorporated town by a larger one. There is in most cases no differences between a city and a village, and some states have eliminated the latter title. But any place that incorporates as a village is admitting it doesn't expect to get that big. (the Village of Schaumburg IL being the notable exception).
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:57 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Maybe I'm missing/misunderstanding your point, but most municipalities, at least in Ohio, incorporate for pragmatic reasons: they may incorporate to prevent annexation by the larger neighboring city, they may want to levy an income tax, etc.
Hmm. A municipality doesn't incorporate here, a municipality is incorporated by definition. And the whole state is subdivided into municipalities [which may be towns or cities — only difference is the type of government]. Here's the incorporation date for the original municipalities.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_at_formation

Most got subdivided later. Boston annexed other towns.
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