Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-15-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,394,033 times
Reputation: 10343

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
if it has the typical qualities of a suburb, its a suburb. doesn't matter if its bigger or smaller than the city. if its just made up of a bunch of strip malls and single family homes, has little or no walkability, etc...then its a suburb. doesn't matter if the population is 1 thousand or 1 million. if it has few or no urban elements I don't see how you could call it a 'city.' regardless of its size.
Define urban element.

[]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-15-2013, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,167,257 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
Define urban element.

[]
We don't "do" definitions on this forum, doncha know? They're too confining.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 07:11 PM
 
1,018 posts, read 1,838,965 times
Reputation: 754
Just because one can't precisely define something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. People understand that there's a difference between a central city and a suburb. We know that New York City doesn't fall under the suburb label. We know that Scarsdale doesn't fall under the central city label. Unless one is writing an academic, quantitative study, it's usually not necessary to create a precise quantitative definition, but instead to describe what characterizes and differentiates a given type of place. And there will be borderline cases, whose classification may vary depending on what criteria one chooses to use.

It also depends on what one is using the information for. To differentiate central cities from suburbs? To differentiate different types of suburbs from each other? To illustrate the evolution of suburbs?

Tens of millions of Americans think they live in suburbs and would be rather upset if we told them that suburbs don't really exist, even if suburban non-existence might foster more resource conserving metropolitan development.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,167,257 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
Just because one can't precisely define something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. People understand that there's a difference between a central city and a suburb. We know that New York City doesn't fall under the suburb label. We know that Scarsdale doesn't fall under the central city label. Unless one is writing an academic, quantitative study, it's usually not necessary to create a precise quantitative definition, but instead to describe what characterizes and differentiates a given type of place. And there will be borderline cases, whose classification may vary depending on what criteria one chooses to use.

It also depends on what one is using the information for. To differentiate central cities from suburbs? To differentiate different types of suburbs from each other? To illustrate the evolution of suburbs?

Tens of millions of Americans think they live in suburbs and would be rather upset if we told them that suburbs don't really exist, even if suburban non-existence might foster more resource conserving metropolitan development.
I know you haven't been posting on this forum long, but I tried to get a common definition of "suburb", so that when we discussed suburbs we were all on the same page, and many people did not want to commit. They want "suburb" to mean whatever they don't like, as Ohiogirl81 said earlier in this thread. That's what I meant. It was sarcasm, sort of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 07:38 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,149,397 times
Reputation: 15174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I know you haven't been posting on this forum long, but I tried to get a common definition of "suburb", so that when we discussed suburbs we were all on the same page, and many people did not want to commit. They want "suburb" to mean whatever they don't like, as Ohiogirl81 said earlier in this thread. That's what I meant. It was sarcasm, sort of.
And I offered one, and people didn't agree. Some things aren't clear cut and a simple definition is impossible as one poster said earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink View Post
This is probably an undefinable question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 07:45 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,149,397 times
Reputation: 15174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I've seen your viewpoint expressed by many on this forum. However, when actually discussing suburbs, it does seem to come down to political boundaries.
I'm sure many forum discussion do involve political boundaries, though IMO often needlessly. This thread started based on political boundaries. But many of the discussions here involve just development patterns where political boundaries are a side issue, and many of the city vs suburb arguments are really about development types not whether a place is in the limits of the principal city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,167,257 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
And I offered one, and people didn't agree. Some things aren't clear cut and a simple definition is impossible as one poster said earlier:
I offered a defintion of suburb, too, and people didn't agree, particularly the "anti-suburb" faction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm sure many forum discussion do involve political boundaries, though IMO often needlessly. This thread started based on political boundaries. But many of the discussions here involve just development patterns where political boundaries are a side issue, and many of the city vs suburb arguments are really about development types not whether a place is in the limits of the principal city.
Development patterns are influenced by municipal ordinances, e.g. lot size, setbacks, land donated to open space, etc, so political boundaries do make a difference. Some people feel any home built after 1945 (except maybe the one they live in) is "suburban" no matter where it is. Some people feel any residential neighborhood is "suburban". It would be nice if we could come to some common definition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 08:28 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,149,397 times
Reputation: 15174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I offered a definition of suburb, too, and people didn't agree, particularly the "anti-suburb" faction.
Yes, I disagreed it as well, mostly for being too simplistic. A common agreement is impossible, as we've seen on many threads.

Quote:
Development patterns are influenced by municipal ordinances, e.g. lot size, setbacks, land donated to open space, etc, so political boundaries do make a difference.
I realize that. I said as much here:

Urban vs. suburban vs. rural and what is considered inner city?

but if you're interested in changes in development, it makes more sense to talk about where development patterns changes rather than where the political boundaries are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 08:30 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,929,089 times
Reputation: 2938
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
Define urban element.

[]
you don't know what urban means?

walkable. mixed-use. transit, bike, pedestrian-friendly. not autocentric.

yeah I know these are alien concepts to most Americans so I can see how most would not be familiar with the term in the context of urban planning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,167,257 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
you don't know what urban means?

walkable. mixed-use. transit, bike, pedestrian-friendly. not autocentric.
Like this place?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis...ds/vis-flu.pdf

Whoops, wrong website, but I'm going to leave it up. Maybe someone will get some good info out of it. Here's what I wanted to post:
http://www.louisvilleco.gov/http://w...isvilleco.gov/
Look at the pictures.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top