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Old 01-19-2013, 08:55 AM
 
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Which really aren't properly characterized as suburbs at all now and in most instances are for intents and purposes, central city neighborhoods now. They we're frequently built on grids, with interconnected streets, most houses in narrow lots, mixed use and all-in-all quite urban.

They bare almost no resemblance to the modern post war automobile oriented suburbs, built on dendritic pattern of roads on large lots, in pod-like separation and not urban at all.

Frequently on these discussions someone invariable points to a streetcar suburb as evidence suburbs aren't terrible places. Streetcar suburbs are not the same animal as modern suburbs and not properly characterized as such.

 
Old 01-19-2013, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Which really aren't properly characterized as suburbs at all now
There's another thread for this particular endless argument.

If you want to criticize suburbs, as a whole, streetcar and train suburbs are part of it. If you want to criticize a particular sort of suburb, such as post-war tract developments, just specify it. If you try to paint with a broad brush, you're going to get called on it -- just as someone who doesn't like cities is going to get called on it if he assumes all cities are like Detroit.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 01:15 PM
 
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Streetcar suburbs are separately incorporated and usually have good schools. Actually, even some post WW2 suburbs aren't all that horrible, some even have nightlife. Railroad suburbs can go for many miles past the city limits and may incorporate large lots, even country clubs.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,371 posts, read 59,807,408 times
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If there's one thing people should stop doing, it's generalizing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
If you want to criticize suburbs, as a whole, streetcar and train suburbs are part of it. If you want to criticize a particular sort of suburb, such as post-war tract developments, just specify it. If you try to paint with a broad brush, you're going to get called on it
Good points, all around.

I'd go a step further and say that not all post-war tract developments are created equal. I've been in a number of them and lived in several that have gridded layouts, are connected to older neighborhoods by streets and sidewalks, and that are within a reasonable walking distance of neighborhood business districts.

So, OP, if you really want to criticize a particular sort of sub-urban development, such as large lots, please do specify what it is that has your panties in a twist.

This business of generalization is, quite frankly, so much bullcrap.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 02:28 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,714,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
If there's one thing people should stop doing, it's generalizing.


Good points, all around.

I'd go a step further and say that not all post-war tract developments are created equal. I've been in a number of them and lived in several that have gridded layouts, are connected to older neighborhoods by streets and sidewalks, and that are within a reasonable walking distance of neighborhood business districts.

So, OP, if you really want to criticize a particular sort of sub-urban development, such as large lots, please do specify what it is that has your panties in a twist.

This business of generalization is, quite frankly, so much bullcrap.
Most times when someone offers up a critique of suburban sprawl - it's quite obvious the kind of development they are criticizing. Invariable defenders of sprawl will spark up and go - nu huh - look at Coral Gables - it's gorgeous (as if that's the kind of development in question).

Katy Texas is NEVER going to be or look like Coral Gables or Shaker Heights of any of those old pre-war suburbs, no matter how much a patina of age you put on it.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,371 posts, read 59,807,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Most times when someone offers up a critique of suburban sprawl - it's quite obvious the kind of development they are criticizing. Invariable defenders of sprawl will spark up and go - nu huh - look at Coral Gables - it's gorgeous (as if that's the kind of development in question).

Katy Texas is NEVER going to be or look like Coral Gables or Shaker Heights of any of those old pre-war suburbs, no matter how much a patina of age you put on it.
Your problem with this argument is that not all suburbs are sprawling, not all sprawl is poorly planned, and not all suburbs are Coral Gables.

Strike two. But nice try.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 03:11 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,990 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Streetcar suburbs are separately incorporated and usually have good schools. Actually, even some post WW2 suburbs aren't all that horrible, some even have nightlife. Railroad suburbs can go for many miles past the city limits and may incorporate large lots, even country clubs.
Many suburbs are separately incorporated. What's your point?
 
Old 01-19-2013, 03:15 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,990 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
If there's one thing people should stop doing, it's generalizing.


Good points, all around.

I'd go a step further and say that not all post-war tract developments are created equal. I've been in a number of them and lived in several that have gridded layouts, are connected to older neighborhoods by streets and sidewalks, and that are within a reasonable walking distance of neighborhood business districts.

So, OP, if you really want to criticize a particular sort of sub-urban development, such as large lots, please do specify what it is that has your panties in a twist.

This business of generalization is, quite frankly, so much bullcrap.
Exactly, and I think many of us who have been on this board a while are particularly annoyed with the generalizing. It's this constant combination of "Groundhog Day" and "reinventing the wheel".
 
Old 01-19-2013, 03:20 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,714,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Your problem with this argument is that not all suburbs are sprawling, not all sprawl is poorly planned, and not all suburbs are Coral Gables.

Strike two. But nice try.
I completely disagree - sprawl, by its very nature, is by definition poorly planned.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,371 posts, read 59,807,408 times
Reputation: 54016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
I completely disagree - sprawl, by its very nature, is by definition poorly planned.
How do you define sprawl? How does the guy next to you define sprawl?

Is all sprawl created equal?

Strike three, pal. You're out.
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