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Old 02-06-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,102,417 times
Reputation: 3117

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
" I thought I was being very clear when I said that. What I meant was, the suburbs are a part of any city's MSA". .
OK. That reads very differently to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
" People living in the suburbs are not living in a small town or a rural area. .
Quite true. They are living in the suburbs, which is different from an urban area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
" Most people in the suburbs, when asked where they live when traveling will say "Denver" or "suburban Denver" (for example). .
Of course, because nobody knows where Arvada is, just as nobody knows where Parkville is, but everyone knows where Baltimore is (actually that isn't true Public Shaming)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
" I thought Maryland had a county-wide school system that is generally well funded? .
Generally. We have a lot of wealthy counties whose property taxes fund very good, wealthy county schools. Baltimore City (which isn't part of a county) is quite poor. As you often say, all city schools need to be better. Ours are no different. While our schools get a bunch of funding from sources other than taxes out of sheer necessity, there is still not nearly enough money. Kids without textbooks is sort of the norm. So while W.E.B. DuBois high school in northern Baltimore City is just 1.5 miles or so from Parkville High School in Baltimore County, and the areas appear similar in development style (suburban-looking SFHs, rowhomes), I'm sure a glance at test scores would confirm a wide gap. Which is why the city line matters, and why the distinction is important. It's not a soft line, it's a hard-edged border. This is our cross to bear, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
" Glad to know you think the suburbs are outside of the city.
Is that not true?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,425 posts, read 8,783,458 times
Reputation: 7734
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
It's not that kids can't walk to school, it's that our overprotective society won't let them.
For good reason. Ever looked at stats. on the # of child molester low life people out there?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:35 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Is that not true?
We've had plenty of discussion about it. Yes, I think it's true.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:59 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,830,658 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
For good reason. Ever looked at stats. on the # of child molester low life people out there?
About 3 per thousand, in the sex offender paradise of Florida. Less anywhere else. However, that number includes ALL sex offenders, including those who raped adults, flashers, public urinators, and the like. Actual child molesters... not very many.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:54 AM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,266,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi nei--

I just now jumped into this conversation, but... what?

I'd be shocked and appalled to hear of a school that didn't want its' kids to bike to school. After all the talk about trying to get kids healthier, eating better, and getting into better shape I can hardly imagine a better way to get kids exercising than to burn 200 calories each way to and from school.


walking to school alongside a lot of loud and fast-moving vehicle traffic is scary enough when you're a kid living in a very car-centric environment. but doing it on a bike is even scarier. the risk of getting hit by a car is very high. in that sense you can't fault people for not wanting their kids or their students to ride a bike to school, if that's what they're trying to protect them against.


I wouldn't want my child bike to school unless: the area had lots of protected bike lanes or bike paths, low speed limits, plenty of traffic calming measures in place such as speed bumps, extended sidewalks, narrow streets, etc. a few places such as Portland OR and Boulder CO appear to be models of cities that have tons of bike-friendly infrastructure, but they are too rare.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:35 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
walking to school alongside a lot of loud and fast-moving vehicle traffic is scary enough when you're a kid living in a very car-centric environment. but doing it on a bike is even scarier. the risk of getting hit by a car is very high. in that sense you can't fault people for not wanting their kids or their students to ride a bike to school, if that's what they're trying to protect them against.


I wouldn't want my child bike to school unless: the area had lots of protected bike lanes or bike paths, low speed limits, plenty of traffic calming measures in place such as speed bumps, extended sidewalks, narrow streets, etc. a few places such as Portland OR and Boulder CO appear to be models of cities that have tons of bike-friendly infrastructure, but they are too rare.
I would not let my kid ride a bike to school in Boulder until high school, or maybe late middle school. Boulder, for all it "talks the talk" has a horrendous traffic problem. Now maybe I'd let them ride to a school in a totally residential neighborhood if the route did not involve crossing any major roads. There has been lots of research that kids can't judge car speeds, etc very well.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:07 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,266,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I would not let my kid ride a bike to school in Boulder until high school, or maybe late middle school. Boulder, for all it "talks the talk" has a horrendous traffic problem.
I don't disagree. despite having over 300 miles of biking lanes and bike paths boulder is still a city of of low density sprawl. boulder has some really great areas for biking but also many areas that aren't so great. which is the fundamental problem you have with sprawl. building bike-friendly infrastructure is most cost-effective in compact high-density urban areas. maybe it can still be done in some sprawl areas but the challenges and expenses will be a lot greater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Now maybe I'd let them ride to a school in a totally residential neighborhood if the route did not involve crossing any major roads. There has been lots of research that kids can't judge car speeds, etc very well.
I like the idea of pedestrian underpasses...short tunnels built beneath busy streets so pedestrians and cyclists can safely cross without encountering any vehicle traffic. I believe there are something like 75 of these type of underpasses in boulder.






Last edited by cisco kid; 02-07-2013 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
You'd let your 5 yo ride through one of those by him/herself? There is one under South Boulder Rd. in my neighborhood in Louisville. I would never let a child ride through it alone. There have been a few attempted abductions in that tunnel.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,761,847 times
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I think the laws in Ontario are more or less that kids can bike on the sidewalk but teenagers can't, at least that's the spirit of the laws (which vary by municipality), usually they're about wheel diameter rather than age, although they're not really enforced.

Still, I would say well over 12% of Canadian kids live within walking distance of a school and don't have to cross a major road to get there.

Here's London, Ontario, I would say it's a pretty average Canadian city. The urban area is the 11th largest in Canada at 366,000 people. It has a pre-WWII gridded core but plenty of post-WWII development with strip malls and curving streets. Both the pre and post-WWII neighbourhoods are mostly single family with townhouses and apartment buildings here and there and have similar densities. Red circles show 1/2 mile radii around public elementary schools (there are many catholic and a few private elementary schools too, which are not shown), which is about a 15 minute walk considering that you won't be able to walk a bee line. Just looking at the map, I would say that about 50% of residential areas are within that 1/2 mile radius. The area outlined in blue if the main one where I wouldn't expect kids to walk to school due to distance, a river with few bridges and busy roads. There are also a few areas under development in the outskirts where schools haven't been built yet and walking to school would be an issue. The other areas are still at most 1 mile from a school, which is still not too bad imo.


I picked a school pretty much at random in London, W Sherwood Fox Public School, and this seems to be the busiest road that kids would have to cross (unless the school's catchment area was drawn in a weird way to include areas across busier roads that could be served by other schools). Viscount Road:
London, ON - Google Maps

A good way to look at it is in terms of super blocks. The super block bound by Southdale, Wharncliffe, Commissioners and Wonderland Rd is about 1.1 by 1.4 miles. In addition to being served by Sherwood Fox, it is served by 2 other public elementary schools and one Catholic elementary school. Those 4 roads that form the superblock are pretty busy, but the biggest road inside the super block is Viscount Road which looks pretty tame.
Wharncliffe Rd S to Wharncliffe Rd S - Google Maps

The super block to the West, up to Wellington is about the same size, and the roads are similar. It has 2 public elementary schools. The super block to the East is also similar, but with one public elementary, one Catholic elementary and one high school. The super block to the North has 3 public elementary, 1 Catholic elementary and 1 high school.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:50 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,266,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You'd let your 5 yo ride through one of those by him/herself? There is one under South Boulder Rd. in my neighborhood in Louisville. I would never let a child ride through it alone. There have been a few attempted abductions in that tunnel.

lol but kidnappings can happen anywhere, but is much less likely to occur during the day with a lot of people around. the broadway tunnel in boulder connects an elementary school with a medical center. a lot of college students from the nearby UC campus also make use of the tunnel and pass through it all day long. a child walking alone by themself after dark might be a different story but its not much of a concern during the day.

to me a 5 yo is too young anyway to let them go anywhere by themself even during the day without being accompanied on the way by an adult or an older child. for me around 8 or 9 would be the minimum age to let them go anywhere alone.
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