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Old 01-28-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,101,497 times
Reputation: 3979

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think it's so much that. Where are you going to walk to living in Marietta, Georgia? Most people live in places like that, not cutesy streetcar suburbs with farmer's markets and transit options nearby. Driving is a necessity for most people.

But even in every other place that's not Manhattan, people drive because it's crazy efficient. Just running a few routine errands in Washington, DC could take the better part of your day while the same tasks could be accomplished by car within an hour. And we're talking about what is probably the second best transit city in America! I can't even imagine what it would be like to try to use the more limited transit in other cities.

Not everyone wants to burn up a whole Saturday afternoon riding buses and trains.
I agree, not having a car is usually a larger burden than having one, except for a few select places. I don't see how having a car in itself would be a burden, unless the parking was so expensive that it caused you to go without other needs.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,648,620 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
I agree, not having a car is usually a larger burden than having one, except for a few select places. I don't see how having a car in itself would be a burden, unless the parking was so expensive that it caused you to go without other needs.
Take a look at my post in the thread about the car culture.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,101,497 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Take a look at my post in the thread about the car culture.
Which one? The one where you said you physically could not drive (for whatever reason)? I guess that yeah, in that situation or a situation where you are too handicapped to drive then having a car would be a burden. But that doesn't affect much of the population (neither does living in a place where parking is a huge expense).

I personally try to avoid driving as well, mostly because it is a major PITA in Los Angeles. I guess dropping 100 bucks a month on parking is a burden for me but doesn't affect my quality of life really, so I don't see that as a burden.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Here's an exercise.

Let's say you live on Capitol Hill in DC. You need to go to Bed Bath and Beyond to pick up a wedding gift (wedding starts at 4:00 pm). The closest one is in Chinatown, which takes 22 minutes on Metrorail, not accounting for the wait on a Saturday morning. Seeing that there will likely be track work on the weekends, we can go ahead and build in a 15 minute delay. So that puts your total travel time at 37 minutes. The same trip in your car would have taken 8 minutes. We'll throw in an extra five for parking.

So far, we've lost 24 minutes.

Once you get to BBB, you discover that the person working in the registry was a moron (likely) and was wrong about all the items he said were in stock. He calls over to the Friendship Heights location, which has everything you need. That's a 22 minute ride on the dreadfully notorious Red Line, which really means 40 minutes. Driving takes 19 minutes and we'll add an extra 3 minutes for parking in the garage (validation).

So far, we've lost 42 minutes.

While you're out, you decide to pick up the first season of Homeland since everybody's been talking about it. You call ahead to the closest location in Tenleytown, which confirms that it's in stock. The 32 bus takes 7 minutes, but you have to wait 10 minutes for it to arrive. The drive is 3 minutes, but we'll toss in 3 minutes to find parking.

So far we've lost 53 minutes.

Well, it turns out that Best Buy Tenleytown only has Homeland on Blu Ray and you have DVD. But you really want to see it when you get home, so you decide it's worth the trek to Best Buy Columbia Heights. It takes 27 minutes by bus (assuming it's right there), but that rarely happens in any city. So you wait 15 minutes for the bus to arrive. That's a 42 minute trip. It takes 15 minutes to drive there from Tenleytown and 2 minutes to find parking in the garage.

So far we've lost 1 hour and 18 minutes.

You grab the last Homeland DVD set! Now you're ready to head home. That's a 34 minute Metro ride. But train service is considerably slower on the weekend, so we'll build in a 15 minute delay. It takes 18 minutes to drive back home to Capitol Hill.

So far we've lost 1 hour and 49 minutes.

How can you not see the beauty of a car here?

Last edited by BajanYankee; 01-28-2013 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,648,620 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Which one? The one where you said you physically could not drive (for whatever reason)? I guess that yeah, in that situation or a situation where you are too handicapped to drive then having a car would be a burden. But that doesn't affect much of the population (neither does living in a place where parking is a huge expense).

I personally try to avoid driving as well, mostly because it is a major PITA in Los Angeles. I guess dropping 100 bucks a month on parking is a burden for me but doesn't affect my quality of life really, so I don't see that as a burden.
Oh sorry, my posts got posted during different times. I meant my example where I said where sometimes it can be a pain in the neck to have someone drive me and I preferred to take a bus rather than depend upon a friend to take me places. It was in response to the comment that was made that often non drivers bug drivers to chauffeur them around everywhere. I didn't mean to be confusing. Sorry about that.

I thought it might give people an idea of the fact that sometimes people in my situation would prefer to use public transportation rather than being dependent upon being driven around by others.

I always was physically able to drive. It was just that trying to drive made me nervous and uncomfortable and I didn't like it so I didn't do it. People I met in Portland when I moved here thought I was physically handicapped because they could not imagine anyone not wanting to drive. In Chicago it was just accepted I had chosen not to. It was just a different mind set.

Last edited by Minervah; 01-28-2013 at 05:31 PM..
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,101,497 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Oh sorry, my posts got posted during different times. I meant my example where I said where sometimes it can be a pain in the neck to have someone drive me. I didn't mean to be confusing. Sorry about that.
I thought it might give people an idea of the fact that sometimes some people in my situation would prefer to use public transportation rather than being dependent upon being driven around by others.
Yeah I agree, I'm one of those people LOL.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,101,497 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Here's an exercise.

Let's say you live on Capitol Hill in DC. You need to go to Bed Bath and Beyond to pick up a wedding gift (wedding starts at 4:00 pm). The closest one is in Chinatown, which takes 22 minutes on Metrorail, not accounting for the wait on a Saturday morning. Seeing that there will likely be track work on the weekends, we can go ahead and build in a 15 minute delay. So that puts your total travel time at 37 minutes. The same trip in your car would have taken 8 minutes. We'll throw in an extra five for parking.

So far, we've lost 24 minutes.

Once you get to BBB, you discover that the person working in the registry was a moron (likely) and was wrong about all the items he said were in stock. He calls over to the Friendship Heights location, which has everything you need. That's a 22 minute ride on the dreadfully notorious Red Line, which really means 40 minutes. Driving takes 19 minutes and we'll add an extra 3 minutes for parking in the garage (validation).

So far, we've lost 42 minutes.

While you're out, you decide to pick up the first season of Homeland since everybody's been talking about it. You call ahead to the closest location in Tenleytown, which confirms that it's in stock. The 32 bus takes 7 minutes, but you have to wait 10 minutes for it to arrive. The drive is 3 minutes, but we'll toss in 3 minutes to find parking.

So far we've lost 53 minutes.

Well, it turns out that Best Buy Tenleytown only has Homeland on Blu Ray and you have DVD. But you really want to see it when you get home, so you decide it's worth the trek to Best Buy Columbia Heights. It takes 27 minutes by bus (assuming it's right there), but that rarely happens in any city. So you wait 15 minutes for the bus to arrive. That's a 42 minute trip. It takes 15 minutes to drive there from Tenleytown and 2 minutes to find parking in the garage.

So far we've lost 1 hour and 18 minutes.

You grab the last Homeland DVD set! Now you're ready to head home. That's a 34 minute Metro ride. But train service is considerably slower on the weekend, so we'll build in a 15 minute delay. It takes 18 minutes to drive back home to Capitol Hill.

So far we've lost 1 hour and 49 minutes.

How can you not see the beauty of a car here?
Geez I just would have gone to Target in one trip.

Or walked to the BBB two blocks from my apartment

But yes, life can be limiting when you do not have a vehicle at your disposal, I agree.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Geez I just would have gone to Target in one trip.
Depends on where the person is registered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Or walked to the BBB two blocks from my apartment
Same issue. The moron in the registry was wrong and now you have to go to the next closest location, which according to Google Maps is on 3rd Street near Beverly Hills. Now you have a minimum 39 minute transit trip whereas a car trip would take only 13 minutes. And that's assuming the bus is there the instant you walk out of the store. That wait can be as long as 30 minutes according to the 210 bus schedule posted here.

Assuming the worst case scenario (as you always should), the bus might take up to half an hour to arrive. So a trip to the next closest BBB could potentially take over an hour. A more realistic wait is 10-15 minutes (might actually be a lucky wait on a Saturday), but that's still basically an hour to make a trip that would have taken 15 minutes tops if you had a car.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:47 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 1,541,069 times
Reputation: 746
Individual rationality within a car dependent place will probably lead you to a car.

On the level of the society, creating places where cars are the only viable means of transportation is a massive restriction versus the other options, which happen to be less resource consuming, less polluting, typically physically better for you (since they involve exercise) and have a lower cost per passenger trip. On an even broader level, it means the society has to constantly generate new sources of oil, an ever more difficult and polluting task (see tar sands). It certainly seems to drive at least some of US foreign policy. That's not my definition of freedom.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:58 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,264,094 times
Reputation: 2924
Quote:
Originally Posted by never-more View Post
Is the car a restriction or freedom?
In North America, the car is a restriction.

Freedom means choice but in North America you don't have much of a choice. The average person here cannot function or survive without a car. You need to have a car, period.
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