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Old 01-26-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
37,105 posts, read 45,631,484 times
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I tend towards thinking that anything that involves acquiring a possession, which is required by the government to be taxed insured and registered, is a loss of freedom.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,565,220 times
Reputation: 10299
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
It is both.
Agreed.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:32 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
While it allows you to go more places on your schedule, the costs of driving are a burden to many. Some even take a second job to pay for gas and tolls. The headlines are all about the high cost of medical but transportation exceeds that overall. Let's not forget the health problems that result from sitting behind the wheel for so long
Are you serious? I was in the hospital for three days for hip replacement surgery, and the cost of the hospital care alone, not the dr's fees, was $76,000! You could buy three brand new cars for that!

Medical Expenses: Top Cause of Bankruptcy in the United States | GiveForward

I don't have a clue what health problems you're talking about. Maybe you could elaborate?

Is "car dependency" anything like "meth dependency" or "Vicodin dependency" or "nicotine dependency"? Do people say, "I could quit driving any time"?
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,319,071 times
Reputation: 5175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Cars and car dependency are two entirely different things.

It is nothing close to "new speak" to say that car dependency is not freedom. That thread was nonsensical from the start.

Car dependency means exactly that - to function, you are dependent on an automobile.
Are you free to choose whether to own a car or not? Yes
Does a car offer the ultimate freedom to nationally go where you want when you want? Yes
Does a car offer more freedom and choice more cost effectively than public transportation? Yes
Does a car require some degree of responsibility in return? Yes

Last edited by nei; 01-26-2013 at 09:44 PM.. Reason: rude
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:10 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,010 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Are you free to choose whether to own a car or not? Yes
Does a car offer the ultimate freedom to nationally go where you want when you want? Yes
Does a car offer more freedom and choice more cost effectively than public transportation? Yes
Does a car require some degree of responsibility in return? Yes
JFC.. "car dependent" describes a condition that requires a car. How would you describe such a condition?

There is absolutely nothing contradictory about that description.

Last edited by nei; 01-26-2013 at 09:45 PM.. Reason: editted out personal attacks
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:13 PM
 
12,299 posts, read 15,194,052 times
Reputation: 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Are you serious? I was in the hospital for three days for hip replacement surgery, and the cost of the hospital care alone, not the dr's fees, was $76,000! You could buy three brand new cars for that!

Medical Expenses: Top Cause of Bankruptcy in the United States | GiveForward

I don't have a clue what health problems you're talking about. Maybe you could elaborate?

Is "car dependency" anything like "meth dependency" or "Vicodin dependency" or "nicotine dependency"? Do people say, "I could quit driving any time"?
How Does the Average Family Budget Compare to Yours? | My Family Finances
There is the link. Not everyone has a major procedure every year, some go a lifetime without one. Hope you have recovered from yours! As to health problems, you don't get much exercise driving. I am sure those who have long commutes get less exercise partly because they don't have the time.
Car dependency may be tougher to quit since often your job, or something else, depends on it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Chicago
204 posts, read 723,703 times
Reputation: 225
Where I live, a car is a restriction. Between the break-ins and high cost of insurance, my close proximity to the 'L' and busses, extreme walkability of my neighborhood, and the high licensing and parking fees/restrictions it is too much of a headache. I haven't owned a car in 12 year.

Although in the case of my mother, who lives in an area with winding, wooded roads with no sidewalks 8 miles from a grocery store, it's a necessity. It really has to do with where you live, what your job requires, and if you do a lot of activities/haul your kids all over for their activities.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:52 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
How Does the Average Family Budget Compare to Yours? | My Family Finances
There is the link. Not everyone has a major procedure every year, some go a lifetime without one. Hope you have recovered from yours! As to health problems, you don't get much exercise driving. I am sure those who have long commutes get less exercise partly because they don't have the time.
Car dependency may be tougher to quit since often your job, or something else, depends on it.
My hip is fine, thanks.

Anyone can cook up a budget to prove whatever they want. That transportation budget is extremely high. If you are not paying interest on car payments, and you keep your cars 10+ years as we do, ownership of the vehicle is not that expensive. We just bought a new car, got 0% financing, and are paying $350/month. That is $4200/yr. The other car is 10 years old and we own it free and clear. So we have gas, oil, maintenance (practically $0 as the new one is under warranty and the other has had few problems in the ten years we've owned it), tires, license tags, etc. The health budget in that link is artificially low IMO. $3100 is barely enough to pay the employee's share of health insurance, let alone any co-pays, non-covered expenses, etc, especially if one has a family and this is supposed to be a family budget.

There are no health problems that I know of that directly result from driving a car. If you take public transit, your commute will likely be longer than if you drive.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,062 posts, read 16,078,369 times
Reputation: 12636
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgardener View Post
Where I live, a car is a restriction. Between the break-ins and high cost of insurance, my close proximity to the 'L' and busses, extreme walkability of my neighborhood, and the high licensing and parking fees/restrictions it is too much of a headache. I haven't owned a car in 12 year.

Although in the case of my mother, who lives in an area with winding, wooded roads with no sidewalks 8 miles from a grocery store, it's a necessity. It really has to do with where you live, what your job requires, and if you do a lot of activities/haul your kids all over for their activities.
Eg, your life choices. I can't see how choosing to live your life such that you need a car means cars are a restriction. You're perfectly free to live your life some other way that wouldn't require a car. On the other hand, without cars you wouldn't be free to choose to live your life in such a way that puts you in a state of being car dependent. Most people couldn't live on the half-acre lot with winding, wooded roads with no sidewalks 8 miles from a grocery store without a car since getting to work, the grocery store, taking the kids to school, 4H, ballet, soccer practice, and what have you would be far too difficult. The car opens up that option. That doesn't mean it's right for everyone, and it doesn't mean that just because you chose to have a car you have to live in such a place. Many people have cars but don't use them day to day.

I can slightly see the restriction line of thought. The availability of cars had a lot to do with the downfall of the streetcar networks, for example. But that's just not how I see the world. I've found it far more effective to adapt myself to the world than expect the world be adapted to me.

Last edited by Malloric; 01-26-2013 at 07:19 PM..
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,062 posts, read 16,078,369 times
Reputation: 12636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My hip is fine, thanks.

Anyone can cook up a budget to prove whatever they want. That transportation budget is extremely high. If you are not paying interest on car payments, and you keep your cars 10+ years as we do, ownership of the vehicle is not that expensive. We just bought a new car, got 0% financing, and are paying $350/month. That is $4200/yr. The other car is 10 years old and we own it free and clear. So we have gas, oil, maintenance (practically $0 as the new one is under warranty and the other has had few problems in the ten years we've owned it), tires, license tags, etc. The health budget in that link is artificially low IMO. $3100 is barely enough to pay the employee's share of health insurance, let alone any co-pays, non-covered expenses, etc, especially if one has a family and this is supposed to be a family budget.

There are no health problems that I know of that directly result from driving a car. If you take public transit, your commute will likely be longer than if you drive.
Yeah, I expect it isn't including the employer's healthcare cost. The average family's healthcare insurance through Kaiser, for example, is over $15,000 a year.
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