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Old 01-31-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,795,112 times
Reputation: 32309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkat59 View Post
Cars are like any other debilitating addiction.
Thinking of life without them is almost impossible, and like giving up crack or any other mentally, non-physically addicting substance, its hard at first. But for those who can, the reward is priceless. Total freedom that positively impacts all other areas of your life. Losing the car is like getting out of jail or flipping off the terribly mean and horrific boss you had when you got hired in a great new job. Its that liberating
When we encounter a post like the one I quoted above, it's always hard to decide if the poster was just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up or if he was serious. Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews was a good thing and too bad he didn't get them all. While a few people may believe that about the Holocaust, it's just hard to accept that anyone could think that way.

But I'll naively take the bait and assume it was a serious post, just for the sake of argument.

Let's start with the two words "debilitating addiction". How are cars an addiction? Just because we need something to function normally in daily life doesn't mean that thing is an addiction. Are clothes an addiction? It would be easier to arrange our lives to do without cars than to do without clothes. How about indoor plumbing? And what is "debilitating" about car ownership? I suppose if one earns the minimum wage it is financially debilitating, but is that what this thread is about?

How is being car-free "total freedom"? That would require a rather detailed explanation to be understandable. Likewise, what is "liberating" about it? Again, are we talking about finances? We could call it "liberating" to reduce or eliminate any type of expense, I suppose. But the above poster doesn't seem to be talking about finances.

Explanation please?
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
1,476 posts, read 1,513,722 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by never-more View Post
Basically, this was from a thread in the Politics forum about 'Newspeak' (I would recomend reading that thread first) Link her: http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...l#post27924918

So what do you think, agree or disagree that car dependency is a freedom?

in a sense yes
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,154,346 times
Reputation: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
When we encounter a post like the one I quoted above, it's always hard to decide if the poster was just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up or if he was serious. Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews was a good thing and too bad he didn't get them all. While a few people may believe that about the Holocaust, it's just hard to accept that anyone could think that way.

But I'll naively take the bait and assume it was a serious post, just for the sake of argument.

Let's start with the two words "debilitating addiction". How are cars an addiction? Just because we need something to function normally in daily life doesn't mean that thing is an addiction. Are clothes an addiction? It would be easier to arrange our lives to do without cars than to do without clothes. How about indoor plumbing? And what is "debilitating" about car ownership? I suppose if one earns the minimum wage it is financially debilitating, but is that what this thread is about?

How is being car-free "total freedom"? That would require a rather detailed explanation to be understandable. Likewise, what is "liberating" about it? Again, are we talking about finances? We could call it "liberating" to reduce or eliminate any type of expense, I suppose. But the above poster doesn't seem to be talking about finances.

Explanation please?
I think the thing that makes the least sense to me was equating over-enthusiasm for car-free living to Holocaust supporting...

But I agree I don't see how having a car is a debilitating addiction. I don't really like using my car.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:37 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,129,534 times
Reputation: 3118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
When we encounter a post like the one I quoted above, it's always hard to decide if the poster was just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up or if he was serious. Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews was a good thing and too bad he didn't get them all. While a few people may believe that about the Holocaust, it's just hard to accept that anyone could think that way.

But I'll naively take the bait and assume it was a serious post, just for the sake of argument.

Let's start with the two words "debilitating addiction". How are cars an addiction? Just because we need something to function normally in daily life doesn't mean that thing is an addiction. Are clothes an addiction? It would be easier to arrange our lives to do without cars than to do without clothes. How about indoor plumbing? And what is "debilitating" about car ownership? I suppose if one earns the minimum wage it is financially debilitating, but is that what this thread is about?

How is being car-free "total freedom"? That would require a rather detailed explanation to be understandable. Likewise, what is "liberating" about it? Again, are we talking about finances? We could call it "liberating" to reduce or eliminate any type of expense, I suppose. But the above poster doesn't seem to be talking about finances.

Explanation please?
You lost me at Hitler. First to reference Hitler always loses.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:54 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,913,247 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
But I agree I don't see how having a car is a debilitating addiction. I don't really like using my car.
I do like using my car. And yet, I don't huff gasoline, sleep with a socket wrench, or sit in jittery anticipation fantazising about the next time I get to turn the key in my ignition. Living in a city, I do walk/take the subway or trolley whenever feasible (which is most of the week), but parting with my vehicle would cut me off from easy access to quality shopping and friends out in the suburbs, not to mention the fact I love the occasional aimless drive in pursuit of something interesting (which I always find). My car is not so much my daily grind, but my key to freedom.

Also, while the Holocaust aside definitely came out of nowhere, directly comparing cars to crack is far and away more ridiculous.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,593 posts, read 6,401,637 times
Reputation: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
And what is "debilitating" about car ownership? I suppose if one earns the minimum wage it is financially debilitating, but is that what this thread is about?
I'll add that if you're earning minimum wage, just about any significant expense (such as utilities) is debilitating.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:34 PM
 
3,463 posts, read 4,559,033 times
Reputation: 7132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
When we encounter a post like the one I quoted above, it's always hard to decide if the poster was just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up or if he was serious. Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews was a good thing and too bad he didn't get them all. While a few people may believe that about the Holocaust, it's just hard to accept that anyone could think that way.

But I'll naively take the bait and assume it was a serious post, just for the sake of argument.

Let's start with the two words "debilitating addiction". How are cars an addiction? Just because we need something to function normally in daily life doesn't mean that thing is an addiction. Are clothes an addiction? It would be easier to arrange our lives to do without cars than to do without clothes. How about indoor plumbing? And what is "debilitating" about car ownership? I suppose if one earns the minimum wage it is financially debilitating, but is that what this thread is about?

How is being car-free "total freedom"? That would require a rather detailed explanation to be understandable. Likewise, what is "liberating" about it? Again, are we talking about finances? We could call it "liberating" to reduce or eliminate any type of expense, I suppose. But the above poster doesn't seem to be talking about finances.

Explanation please?
When you say "Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews" you lose the right to say ""just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up" about someone else's post.
Although you dont seem prone to understanding abstract ideologies, I'll give it a shot . . .
Every aspect of our society of based on accommodating cars. From our infrastructure, to the state of our economy, taxes, the impact on the school system, fake wars to feed them are given an OK 'cuz "Freedom isn't free", to even way-out peripheral stuff like the long-term effects of time spent in negative environments and committing low-level assaults on someone vis a vis you car due to the anonymity it provides. . . Car culture is the god of our society. People love cars, crave new ones and worship them, overall. When you are able to take control of all aspects of your life and wrest them away from dependance on your car, as in living close to your job, learning how to use alternative transportation etc, it is very, very liberating and the money you save will astound you. When you make the decision to break the chains of your cruel master--Over time, just like beating an unpleasant addiction -- you wonder how you suffered so long, why you didn't get a cure earlier. Some people need a car, but most people are simply lazy and spoiled by the convenience of it. All abstract, far-out thinking to the average suburbaniod, WAL*MART/ mall dwelling American, but very accepted in more hi-thinking and civilized places around the world.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,913,247 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkat59 View Post
When you say "Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews" you lose the right to say ""just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up" about someone else's post.
Although you dont seem prone to understanding abstract ideologies, I'll give it a shot . . .
Every aspect of our society of based on accommodating cars. From our infrastructure, to the state of our economy, taxes, the impact on the school system, fake wars to feed them are given an OK 'cuz "Freedom isn't free", to even way-out peripheral stuff like the long-term effects of time spent in negative environments and committing low-level assaults on someone vis a vis you car due to the anonymity it provides. . . Car culture is the god of our society. People love cars, crave new ones and worship them, overall. When you are able to take control of all aspects of your life and wrest them away from dependance on your car, as in living close to your job, learning how to use alternative transportation etc, it is very, very liberating and the money you save will astound you. When you make the decision to break the chains of your cruel master--Over time, just like beating an unpleasant addiction -- you wonder how you suffered so long, why you didn't get a cure earlier. Some people need a car, but most people are simply lazy and spoiled by the convenience of it. All abstract, far-out thinking to the average suburbaniod, WAL*MART/ mall dwelling American, but very accepted in more hi-thinking and civilized places around the world.
Great post Liono! *snarf snarf*
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
 
2,145 posts, read 1,593,689 times
Reputation: 1057
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkat59 View Post
When you say "Sort of like saying that Hitler's killing of the Jews" you lose the right to say ""just having fun finding the most outrageous thing to say in order to rile people up" about someone else's post.
Although you dont seem prone to understanding abstract ideologies, I'll give it a shot . . .
Every aspect of our society of based on accommodating cars. From our infrastructure, to the state of our economy, taxes, the impact on the school system, fake wars to feed them are given an OK 'cuz "Freedom isn't free", to even way-out peripheral stuff like the long-term effects of time spent in negative environments and committing low-level assaults on someone vis a vis you car due to the anonymity it provides. . . Car culture is the god of our society. People love cars, crave new ones and worship them, overall. When you are able to take control of all aspects of your life and wrest them away from dependance on your car, as in living close to your job, learning how to use alternative transportation etc, it is very, very liberating and the money you save will astound you. When you make the decision to break the chains of your cruel master--Over time, just like beating an unpleasant addiction -- you wonder how you suffered so long, why you didn't get a cure earlier. Some people need a car, but most people are simply lazy and spoiled by the convenience of it. All abstract, far-out thinking to the average suburbaniod, WAL*MART/ mall dwelling American, but very accepted in more hi-thinking and civilized places around the world.
Well, at least you gave it a shot, 'a' for effort. Too bad what you said was complete b.s. and is more likely to drive off someone on your own side than it is to pull someone over from the other.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:19 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 7,802,554 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by never-more View Post
So what do you think, agree or disagree that car dependency is a freedom?
In NYC is freedom, in Florida is a HUGE dependency, and a costly one! in NYC is "freedom" because you have the "freedom" of NOT owning one thanks to the subway, buses all over etc.

Here we don't have any valid PT, so we are attached to our cars to go anywhere. Car breaks down, and we're stuck in the house.
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