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Old 01-29-2013, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
That all has everything to do with grocery stores being low margin businesses. They usually have to do a large volume which usually means a large footprint, which usually requires cheapish land. Cities work against this model unless people are willing to pay more or they are more high end where customers will purchase more expensive items (wine, cheese, imports, etc).
Well, a lot of cities had "cheapish land" only a decade ago. A four bedroom rowhouse on Capitol Hill probably would have cost you $90K in 1996. The same house would probably sell for well over a million today. Cost is certainly an obstacle to building a large grocery store in 2013 now that urban areas are in demand, but it was hardly an obstacle in 1995 when a Brooklyn brownstone could be had for as little as $150K.

And the amenity deficiency has extended beyond grocery stores. That was the impetus behind the CRA after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
In the context of this thread, a grocery store seems pretty risky for a new mixed use building. I'm not surprised that there aren't more. Developers would rather have a bunch of 2,000 to 5,000 square foot businesses that can be easily replaced. I imagine that they'd need a major commitment from a grocery store to allocate so much space to one store.
I think it's the opposite. When these new developments go up, developers want a large tenant with a proven track record (Whole Foods, Harris Teeter, Target) rather than a number of small tenants who all have to be dealt with individually. So you usually see these developments being anchored by big box stores or large grocery stores with a few smaller build outs for businesses like Radio Shack (which is another reliable tenant).
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,923 posts, read 3,647,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Well, a lot of cities had "cheapish land" only a decade ago. A four bedroom rowhouse on Capitol Hill probably would have cost you $90K in 1996. The same house would probably sell for well over a million today. Cost is certainly an obstacle to building a large grocery store in 2013 now that urban areas are in demand, but it was hardly an obstacle in 1995 when a Brooklyn brownstone could be had for as little as $150K.
Obviously the cost of land isn't the only variable. Businesses tend to avoid low income areas for a variety of reasons.


Quote:
I think it's the opposite. When these new developments go up, developers want a large tenant with a proven track record (Whole Foods, Harris Teeter, Target) rather than a number of small tenants who all have to be dealt with individually. So you usually see these developments being anchored by big box stores or large grocery stores with a few smaller build outs for businesses like Radio Shack (which is another reliable tenant).
Well yeah. That's what I meant by getting a commitment. And I don't think that having a big box is the norm based on this thread. It seems like it is for DC, but other places not so much.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,059 posts, read 102,770,515 times
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Here's what my city is doing:

Louisville approves Alfalfa's-anchored redevelopment for Safeway site - Boulder Daily Camera

LOUISVILLE -- It took nearly 18 months and more than half a dozen contentious neighborhood and public meetings, but Tuesday night, Louisville's elected leaders gave their blessing to a plan to redevelop a long-abandoned Safeway -- a project that will likely bring natural grocer Alfalfa's Market to the city.

The Louisville City Council voted unanimously to pass a resolution that allows Boulder developer Jim Loftus to move ahead with construction of a 111-unit luxury apartment complex with structured parking and 33,700 square feet of retail along South Boulder Road.

Plans call for the bulk of that retail space to come in the form of a 24,000-square-foot Alfalfa's -- including a 1,500-square-foot community room -- at the corner of South Boulder Road and Centennial Drive.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:02 AM
 
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You know, it took me the longest time to figure out that the story was about Louisville, Colorado! From the outside it sounds like a positive project and presumably housing at 22 units to the acre won't Manhattanize the place.

In terms of the kind of tenants developers want, different ones have different strategies. Many go for the "credit tenant," the Whole Foods or whoever. Others want to build up a more local image and are willing to go out and recruit a bunch of smaller stores.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:43 AM
 
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Let's be real. Even though Chicago does not have big box 1st floor urban grocery stores, it is still much more urban and grand then D.C. is.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,059 posts, read 102,770,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
You know, it took me the longest time to figure out that the story was about Louisville, Colorado! From the outside it sounds like a positive project and presumably housing at 22 units to the acre won't Manhattanize the place.

In terms of the kind of tenants developers want, different ones have different strategies. Many go for the "credit tenant," the Whole Foods or whoever. Others want to build up a more local image and are willing to go out and recruit a bunch of smaller stores.
We want a "real" grocery store in that place. There used to be a Safeway, which we could walk to from our house. There is also a Walgreen's, a used book store, a shoe repair shop, a dentist, a small pizza parlor, a sports bar, a sewing machine repair shop, a hairdresser and others. What more do you want? I'd like a coffee shop.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:25 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,119,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
We want a "real" grocery store in that place. There used to be a Safeway, which we could walk to from our house. There is also a Walgreen's, a used book store, a shoe repair shop, a dentist, a small pizza parlor, a sports bar, a sewing machine repair shop, a hairdresser and others. What more do you want? I'd like a coffee shop.
I really liked that Sunflower market I wandered into in Lafayette. Any push to get one of those in Louisville?
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I really liked that Sunflower market I wandered into in Lafayette. Any push to get one of those in Louisville?
I like Sunflower, too. It's now "Sprouts", as they bought out Sunflower. No, they won't have two that close together. We're getting Alfalfa's instead.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:39 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 1,544,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
We want a "real" grocery store in that place. There used to be a Safeway, which we could walk to from our house. There is also a Walgreen's, a used book store, a shoe repair shop, a dentist, a small pizza parlor, a sports bar, a sewing machine repair shop, a hairdresser and others. What more do you want? I'd like a coffee shop.
One thing that was drilled into me dealing with zoning issues is that cities approve uses, not specific businesses. So a grocery store gets approved, but it could go out of business and a completely different kind of grocery store could take its place.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,059 posts, read 102,770,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post
One thing that was drilled into me dealing with zoning issues is that cities approve uses, not specific businesses. So a grocery store gets approved, but it could go out of business and a completely different kind of grocery store could take its place.
I"m not sure what your point is. Alfalfa's is planning a store there.
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