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Old 01-30-2013, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilaili View Post
Our mall was old and dated, the shops were lame, the cinema attached to it was so out of touch it didn't even have stadium seating and what seats it did have were all broken and nasty. When the food court closed down two years ago that was pretty much the death knell. We have new owners now and supposedly demolition starts this year with a shiny new mall going up in its place next year. Fingers crossed!
Is this Twin peaks in Longmont, or is there another dead mall being revitalized in Colorado?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
but where else are young people going to hang out? in many communities the shopping mall is one of the few places people can go to hang out with other people. for many the options are limited. the mall is a poor substitute for public space. but its usually the only option people have to be in the company with other people, because there are no good public spaces. either that or sit home in front of your tv and computer all day. the modern built environment is a very anti-social one. it is a very isolating environment. its not surprising then that it breeds a lot of anti-social behavior, depression, alienation, neurosis and other mental health problems in people particularly the young.
I think mall owners r pushing teens out of malls, but I think teens went to malls to hang and feel safe. Parks, skating parks, and downtowns can sometimes be dangerous. My downtown has some homeless that have assaulted people before or been scary as they panhandle. I think parks and skate parks can have some people come by as they are not supervised. That leaves bowling alleys and movie theaters and some bowling alleys I know are getting run down.

The new malls I have seen built have been in more upper middle class neighborhoods. Rather an outlet mall, outdoor mall, or enclosed mall it needs money. Some one with money is more likely able to spend on extra clothes and nice clothes. Where as some one with less money is looking for discounts or a Wal-Mart.

I also I see Macy's in the new malls. I hardly hear about a new JcPenney's or Sear's opening.

Last edited by the city; 01-30-2013 at 09:54 PM..
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:55 PM
 
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Malls were way overbuilt, with optimistic developers being sure that theirs would be the viable one. While Santa Maria might be an exception, usually city governments were eager to get malls built. In California, the city a retailer is in gets a share of their sales tax. That sales tax was one of the few reliable sources of tax revenue for cities after Prop 13, so retailers got the red carpet. William Fulton calls the adjoining auto rows of Oxnard and Ventura "sales tax canyon."

With some weak malls, the land just became more valuable for something else, like housing. Hewlett-Packard took over a failing mall in Mountain View.

Demographics are shifting too. In 1970, poor people were concentrated in central cities, more affluent consumers in the suburbs. Overall, the suburbs are still more affluent, but there are more poor people in the suburbs, and more affluent people in the central cities. So a number of retailers that had focused on the suburbs--like Target--are going into the central cities, with "City Target." Even Walmart, frequently derided as "Sprawlmart", is seeking central city stores.

Malls have often been described as the new town centers. That's certainly what Victor Gruen, who basically invented the modern shopping mall, wanted them to be. I wonder, though, if cities' new emphasis on revitalizing their town centers weakens that role for the mall. This isn't just a big city phenomenon, it's happening in many suburbs too.

Eastmont Mall still has some stores, but its primary function now is as a satellite service center for government agencies. The neighborhood around it just got too poor, and the incomes of people there too sporadic, to support a full mall.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Homewood, IL
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I know of two malls off of the top of my head:
#1. The Plaza-New Orleans
-Big named stores moved out of New Orleans and into malls in the western suburbs because the of the population boom of the adjacent parishes and the crime that started surrounding the malls neighborhoods.
#2. Belle Promenade-Gretna, La
-Before my time, not really sure what happened but here is an article: Hey Blake, I'm looking for information on the former Belle Promenade Mall in Marrero on the West Bank. | Blake Pontchartrain™: New Orleans Trivia | Gambit New Orleans News and Entertainment
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:57 AM
 
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Teens/hood rats/wannabe hood rats.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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At one time we had the "it" mall, and a huge outlet mall across the street from each other in the late 80s and 90s and then about ten years ago in the next county over they built a huge two story mall about double the size of our single story mall. Well now this mall is sitting about half empty with a few small stores and a few big name stores left,J.C. Pennys, Dunhams Sports, and Younkers, all the rest of the big name stores found it cheaper to either build their own store or move into some strip malls. There was a Big Boy, and a kind of classy Irish bar/ grill, a Sabaros and other standard mall food court type places that have all moved out, and got replaced by Chuck E. Cheese and a little ma and pa Mexican place. Despite being bought out and being renovated to bring it out of the 80s it still hasn't really attracted any new stores. Most of the people that go there are old people who use it for walking laps.

The outlet mall, which was like a huge cluster of mini malls on one property, was also pretty popular but now all the stores left have kind of condensed into the center of the property.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlite View Post

Eastmont Mall still has some stores, but its primary function now is as a satellite service center for government agencies. The neighborhood around it just got too poor, and the incomes of people there too sporadic, to support a full mall.
I drive past Eastmont daily... my grandmother shopped the Eastmont JC Pennies store when I was a child... before that, it was a GM auto plant that was redeveloped into a mall.

A couple of reasons besides simply saying it was no longer profitable.

Locals with means started shopping in San Leandro

Stores had to deal with higher incidents of theft and slip and falls.

The remaining patrons were simply not enough to carry the big names.

Even down the street... the neighborhood Foothill Hardware, took an entire city block and a mainstay for since the 1940's has fallen on hard times...

So many things are available online and the store no longer carries the depth of items it once did... I really feel the declines...

Friends were visiting and said they couldn't believe there was not a Starbucks anyone around... their town has several and not one in a part of the city with 100,000+ residents
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:54 PM
 
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A mall near where I've lived, Brookdale Mall in Brooklyn Center, MN was recently partially demolished, to make way for a Walmart. The suburb was built after WWII as a middle- and working- class neighborhood (they were more or less the same thing back then). As people aged, it became something of an immigrant entry point, which exacerbated the white flight already occurring from the inner ring suburbs. The more expensive anchor stores closed and the owner of the mall went bankrupt. It's just terrible that a Walmart is moving in to the area, as a continuation of cycle of poverty.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:53 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,892,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I drive past Eastmont daily... my grandmother shopped the Eastmont JC Pennies store when I was a child... before that, it was a GM auto plant that was redeveloped into a mall.

A couple of reasons besides simply saying it was no longer profitable.

Locals with means started shopping in San Leandro

Stores had to deal with higher incidents of theft and slip and falls.

The remaining patrons were simply not enough to carry the big names.

Even down the street... the neighborhood Foothill Hardware, took an entire city block and a mainstay for since the 1940's has fallen on hard times...

So many things are available online and the store no longer carries the depth of items it once did... I really feel the declines...

Friends were visiting and said they couldn't believe there was not a Starbucks anyone around... their town has several and not one in a part of the city with 100,000+ residents
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. Pomona, CA I hear is the same way and they have a mall that died too.

I feel that malls in Salinas, Santa Maria, and Hanford are living because people have no where else to go to for clothes and the stores in there are where more wealthy working class people could go.

In the case of Oakland and Pomona the masses can just go to neighboring nice cities for a nice mall.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,565,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
but where else are young people going to hang out? in many communities the shopping mall is one of the few places people can go to hang out with other people. for many the options are limited. the mall is a poor substitute for public space. but its usually the only option people have to be in the company with other people, because there are no good public spaces. either that or sit home in front of your tv and computer all day. the modern built environment is a very anti-social one. it is a very isolating environment. its not surprising then that it breeds a lot of anti-social behavior, depression, alienation, neurosis and other mental health problems in people particularly the young.
Your post brings up good observations worth exploring further.

The mall may not be a public space in the literal sense but that does not mean it is not a public space in the figurative sense. It has become, and is, the place for some young people to meet. Therefore, arguably, it is a good (but not best) substitute for a public space. If it was not, then people would have stopped going to the mall to hang out especially when there are other, better options available.

Some people prefer it over other 'better' public places such as the beaches, parks, the mountains/hills for a variety of reasons: security, weather, and convenience. As the beach, park, and other natural environments have not disappeared it can't be because there are no good public spaces (in the literal sense). And people still go to the beach, the park, etc. anyway so it's not like they've been dismissed as options for socializing altogether. If we think about what a lot of public spaces are for - commercial activity - then, arguably, the mall is a natural evolution of the public space.

Although I agree that the modern built environment can be foster anti-social behavior, I don't think that it is the sole reason for that behavior. Technology has played a significant role in this evolution of cities. Because our technology has allowed us to be more remote from each other physically, our urban development reflects this. Of course, as our urban development become less friendly to socializing on a personal level, we seek out the things that we hope will bring us together such as technology (which artificially connects us) and go places where we can see people regardless of the quality of the environment such as the mall.

I think another thing that has made socializing more difficult is the big box store. Nowadays, everything you could practically want can be found under one roof. This makes it easier for one to stay in one building, generally, instead of going outside and to the next store. So you have less 'mixing' of people on public streets, i.e. shoppers, commuters, delivery people, tourists, loiterers, homeless, etc. Because big box stores are private entities (company owned vs. government owned space), they can control who is in them so you don't have the typical mix of people - no homeless, no loiterers, and other individuals that might be considered as undesirable. And, the big box (and indoor mall) are "sanitized" so you don't get the street noise, the loud music, the bad smells, shadows of buildings, various animals life, landscaping, clouds moving across the sky, etc.

What makes the traditional urban core environment so dynamic, in my opinion, is this mix of people, sights, sounds, etc. And it is also, in my opinion, why people hate it. The outdoor mall (redux) I think is an attempt to recreate this while still being sanitized to a certain extent. The outdoor mall in the city I work for, and other similar malls in the region, are very popular. This is much to the detriment of the traditional strip mall and small Mom-and-Pop stores, I should note.

Another impact of big box and mall retail is it has severely affected the social dynamic between shopowner and customer. The type of socializing that would have occured in the Mom-and-Pop store has been diminished. In the past, there could be an interesting dialog occuring between the shopowner and the customer - it was more personal, or so it seemed. These days, the shopowner is a corporation and the person behind the counter is a minimum wage worker with no vested interest in the store. It has become just a transaction.

[the mall - it's actually interesting when you think about it]

Last edited by MIKEETC; 02-01-2013 at 08:40 PM..
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