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Old 02-16-2013, 08:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
High density population - yes.
High rise housing - no.

High rise apartments are wasteful structures, unsuited for frugality, and wholly dependent on power to function.
Totally misguided and backwards way to look at high rises.

High rises occupy little land relative to their use. Instead of being wasteful - they're incredibly efficient. The most wasteful structures are SF households on large lots in the suburbs.

What structures are not (other than caves) "wholly depending on power to function" - I don't even know what that means really - you mean they require elevators? OK. . .

low density, auto-oriented housing requires a substantial amount more "power" to function. When you need to move your 3,000lb car for every trip to the dentist, grocery store, park, pharmacy, etc. - that is waste.

The most wasteful urbanite living downtown in a highrise who walks to work is a relative environmental superstar compared to even the greenest suburbanite.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
^^Here in Richmond, much of our recent urban design has been at a smaller scale (done by people who care about more than economic gains), and appears to be more successful too.
Well it looks a lot better than what you have in Virginia Beach. IMHO I think Chesapeake has it right, but time will tell ...
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:53 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
What structures are not (other than caves) "wholly depending on power to function" - I don't even know what that means really - you mean they require elevators? OK. . .
For example, high rise residential buildings in New York City after hurricane Sandy. Only access through darkened stairwells and water couldn't pump high enough to reach the top floors.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Totally misguided and backwards way to look at high rises.

High rises occupy little land relative to their use. Instead of being wasteful - they're incredibly efficient. The most wasteful structures are SF households on large lots in the suburbs.
If your only measure is land use per capita. Which is a very one dimensional way of looking at it.

Quote:
low density, auto-oriented housing requires a substantial amount more "power" to function. When you need to move your 3,000lb car for every trip to the dentist, grocery store, park, pharmacy, etc. - that is waste.
No, that's use.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:39 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,014 posts, read 102,634,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
If your only measure is land use per capita. Which is a very one dimensional way of looking at it.
Exactly! Think of all the sewage a high rise generates. Now, I'm not suggesting we go back to septic tanks, but that's a huge draw on the sewage system. There is such a thing as "carrying capacity" of the land. One big highrise might not matter; a whole city full of high rises would be a different situation altogether.
Carrying capacity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:41 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Exactly! Think of all the sewage a high rise generates. Now, I'm not suggesting we go back to septic tanks, but that's a huge draw on the sewage system. There is such a thing as "carrying capacity" of the land. One big highrise might not matter; a whole city full of high rises would be a different situation altogether.
Carrying capacity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As long as the total population is the same, I don't think it would matter if everyone lives in high rises or single family homes.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:48 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
As long as the total population is the same, I don't think it would matter if everyone lives in high rises or single family homes.
In places of low population density, septic tanks are still in use today. They work there. They don't work in a city b/c there is just too much sewage.

How a Septic Tank works
Everything from the home first enters the Septic Tank. Sewage enters at the top portion of the Septic Tank and exits at the top portion of the tank. It is in this liquid environment that bacteria do its work of breaking down most solids into a liquid called effluent. Effluent exits the tank and enters the leaching system where it percolates (seeps) back into the ground.

You can't use a system like that if you stack people on top of each other on a tiny plot of land.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:52 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In places of low population density, septic tanks are still in use today. They work there. They don't work in a city b/c there is just too much sewage.
I know that (my parents have a septic tank). But I thought you were excluding septic tanks, your previous post said: I'm not saying we go back to septic tanks. Most towns here, even lower density ones, have a sewer system, they have some advantages.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:02 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I know that (my parents have a septic tank). But I thought you were excluding septic tanks, your previous post said: I'm not saying we go back to septic tanks. Most towns here, even lower density ones, have a sewer system, they have some advantages.
Well, yeah, most cities around here have sewage systems, too, but the denser it gets, the bigger the sewage plant has to be. As nybbler says, looking at land use per capita is only one way of measuring efficiency.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:08 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, yeah, most cities around here have sewage systems, too, but the denser it gets, the bigger the sewage plant has to be. As nybbler says, looking at land use per capita is only one way of measuring efficiency.
I think it's total population rather than density.
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