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When I first began reading up on the advent of TNDs almost 10 years ago, I immediately began buying into the concept. When given a chance, I would visit TNDs in or near various places I was visiting, just to see what they looked like up close versus just online. I was even more sold on the concept. However, I noted that the places I was visiting were priced for the upper middle class and wealthy class and excluded even the "middle" middle class, certainly the lower middle class. Yet one of the principles I kept reading in the literature was having housing at various pricing points to allow people from various walks of life to buy into those neighborhoods. In fact, when the things got built, it was more like have pricing points at the upper middle class, lower wealthy class, and upper wealthy class.
As more TND neighborhoods were built, I began reading more and more literature lamenting how development after development was being built only for the wealthy (ie. upper middle class and wealthy) when the philosophy, again, was various walks of life being able to live TND. Then a new one began being planned in South Carolina. It was billed as offering residences with various pricing points, estimating starting at $150k (small 1500sf homes) and going up to wealthy homesites and homes. Two years later when development began, the housing pricing turned out to be starting at about $350k (small 1500sf homes) and going up to million dollar homes, thus becoming yet ANOTHER of the TND lies about various walks of life. It was one thing to see philosophy in literature not turn out to happen in developments already built, yet another to see a SPECIFIC development actually promote a $150k lower end and then actually offer a $350k lower end.
The philosophy of TNDs turned out to be a lie almost everywhere you look. However, ONE TND that I observed, at it is I believe the largest example in the US, was developed with actual price offerings that ARE middle class and up based on the housing costs in the surrounding city- Stapleton in Denver, CO. I began to see homes in the $300ks there with decent square footage, while homes around the Denver metro in so-called middle class neighborhoods ran about the $300s as well. Meanwhile, again, South Carolina, having very low housing costs in general, built TNDs with homes starting at about DOUBLE what other middle class homes in the area cost. Huge difference in implementation, and totally asinine that I can buy a home in Stapleton in a large, happening city for about the same price as I can buy a home in South Carolina TNDs, and looking at the literature, other TNDs around the nation as well. I was looking at purchasing for approx $225k or so in a $150k starting neighborhood in SC only to be priced out by the $350k low end pricing in implementation.
So I was wondering has anybody else found any examples of TNDs that are NOT the typical lie of pricing starting at middle class rates. And does anybody else have any personal experience with a local TND turning out to be the typical lie that most have become, the typical "we want various walks of life" rhetoric that turns into "we offer only upper middle and wealthy pricing for this neighborhood" reality. After about 10 years of looking at the issue, I still struggle to find TNDs that are not the typical lie, that are not exclusively marketed to the upper income families or upper income singles.
I think that if you look at market is varies by location and salary base as to just what middle class is. It also can vary as to what a middle class home cost. Its always been this way .Some areas are out of the middle class income level as far as home prices and always have been.They have never wanted people of lower income in order to protect the price of their property and the same goes for middle class people not wanting lower middle class homes being built.The rise in gated communities is risng out of the want to lower home prices i areas ;its to guard what the level of buyers it attracts as always.Normally tho I see cookies cut developemnts i all growi areas of the coutnry to attract house income level buyers and the higher price hoes with bigger lots and much nicer not that far away.Its always been this way and I am 65.
But from what I've seen, $300s and $400s is fairly common middle class pricing around the Denver metro. Denver median home price on city-data (2009) for detached houses was $312,192. So even getting a Stapleton detached home for 25% more than Denver median is far better than being double or more vs median. realestate.com shows a low end priced detached home in 80238 right now for $300k that has 1531sf with an attached garage and a front porch.
So Stapleton does have offering that more fit middle class pricing rather than starting at upper income pricing. But again, the Denver TND offering is unlike most TND neighborhoods which begin at a TREMENDOUS premium to median or middle class pricing.
Pricing from the low $300s then would make sense. I mean, let's face it, none of these places are really about having the working class or working poor as neighbors. It might sound nice on paper, but nobody wants their social problems next door to them in their yuppie master planned community. Price it 50-150% above the average, and you exclude anyone except the middle-class. There's apartments in Stapleton, a rarity for such developments, but unless I'm pretty wrong about Denver's rental pricing, $1400-1600 for a 2bd apartment is kind of a lot, no?
Pricing from the low $300s then would make sense. I mean, let's face it, none of these places are really about having the working class or working poor as neighbors. It might sound nice on paper, but nobody wants their social problems next door to them in their yuppie master planned community. Price it 50-150% above the average, and you exclude anyone except the middle-class. There's apartments in Stapleton, a rarity for such developments, but unless I'm pretty wrong about Denver's rental pricing, $1400-1600 for a 2bd apartment is kind of a lot, no?
Not in the "hip" parts of the city. My daughter looked at a 1 BR near Coors Field for $1400.
Pricing from the low $300s then would make sense. I mean, let's face it, none of these places are really about having the working class or working poor as neighbors. It might sound nice on paper, but nobody wants their social problems next door to them in their yuppie master planned community. Price it 50-150% above the average, and you exclude anyone except the middle-class.
Are they pricing it in particular to attract a certain class or are the prices set by demand? Developers aren't interested in having a mix of income classes; they want to get the highest price possible. If the neighborhood is attractive and in demand relative to supply; it'll be priced above average.
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There's apartments in Stapleton, a rarity for such developments, but unless I'm pretty wrong about Denver's rental pricing, $1400-1600 for a 2bd apartment is kind of a lot, no?
Are they pricing it in particular to attract a certain class or are the prices set by demand? Developers aren't interested in having a mix of income classes; they want to get the highest price possible. If the neighborhood is attractive and in demand relative to supply; it'll be priced above average.
Sounds like a good price for Long Island.
I believe Stapleton was supposed to be a place for people of different economic classes.
Here in Albuquerque they've started selling homes in Mesa del Sol, which I believe is being done by the same people that developed Stapleton. They have houses from the mid/high 100's to the 400's and it's supposed to hold about 100K people once it's all built out.
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