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Old 02-15-2013, 07:32 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
A $30k car is NOTHING in NYC. There are people who own ferraris that ride the subway, I promise you that. With 55% of people using transit, there Is not the class distinction you imply.
"Class distinction"? Who said anything about that? It's well known that some people like fancy cars. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
What this thread has taught us is that people have no idea how to calculate annual cost.
I don't know about that. I think most people have a pretty good handle on it.

 
Old 02-15-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
"Class distinction"? Who said anything about that? It's well known that some people like fancy cars. Period..
You assumed that someone who bought a $30k car would take taxis. That's not a class distinction?!? if not, what did you base your assumption on?
 
Old 02-15-2013, 07:51 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
You assumed that someone who bought a $30k car would take taxis. That's not a class distinction?!? if not, what did you base your assumption on?
They like higher-end sources of transportation. They're not interested in taking the subway. God spare us the class warfare talk. I thought we got away from all that a while back!
 
Old 02-15-2013, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,701 posts, read 4,671,793 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
No, it isn't. The 2006 survey which came up with $8003 was based on the average cost per household of vehicle ownership and operation. However, the average number of cars per household in 2006 was about 1.9.

Furthermore, it's not the average cost for the average american. It's the average cost across ALL American households, a distribution which is somewhat skewed. The median third of Americans spend an average of $7310 on their car by the same survey.

More current data can be found here:
Chapter 8 Household Vehicles and Characteristics - Transportation Energy Data Book
Total spending on personal vehicles has dropped considerably since the peak in 2005.


There's all sorts of cross-subsidization going on, and the money is very difficult to follow, but one thing remains clearly true: Mass transit is more subsidized than highways.
Great point. And those subsidized highways are not only used by those of us who drive cars, but buses are using those same highways, so they are used by all of us.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,659,080 times
Reputation: 4508
When someone in another thread provided a link that said the average ridership of a bus was only about 7 people (or something like that) there was some initial skepticism, but I think most people ultimately accepted that figure. But, when the real cost of owning and operating a car is discussed, (and yes, I understand the OP was incorrect; that it isn't the cost of operating one car, but the average annual cost per houshold) we have a twelve page thread full of replies with varying levels of disbelief. Is anyone else amused by this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
First of all, most people on this forum don't seem to much care about poor people.

Secondly, one can buy a second hand car, which greatly reduces ownership costs. One can do one's own maintenance if possible. Only the price of gas is the same.

Add: These numbers do not take into account high efficiency cars vs gas guzzlers, either.
I think you'll see diminishing rates of return. When I was about 14, we bought a car for $200. (Actually my grandfather bought it for my mom, and she eventually paid him back because she didn't have $200 at the time we needed the car.) It actually ran fairly well, for a mid-70s GM product. But, we still had to: pay for basic insurance, pay for more gas than we needed to because it was a gas guzzler and because we couldn't afford to keep it tuned up properly,(and didn't have the ability to do our own maintenance) and pay for the additional repairs required because most components had reached the end of their useful life.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:13 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
They like higher-end sources of transportation. They're not interested in taking the subway. God spare us the class warfare talk. I thought we got away from all that a while back!
1. There has been no talk of class warfare. You introduced this. The word I used was distinction, which means difference. You are implying that someone who drives a $30k car will rather take different mode than the norm based on nothing but the cost of his or her vehicle. I think I described it accurately.

2. You brought it up any conversation of class at all when you assumed that someone in NYC who drives a $30k car wouldn't take the subway.

First of all, here's an example of a $30k car:



But more importantly, on the NY subway more than any other transit in the US (I'd venture), economic classes mix. Why? It's often quicker than any street transportation at peak hours. It's just a different ballgame there.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
Great point. And those subsidized highways are not only used by those of us who drive cars, but buses are using those same highways, so they are used by all of us.


The (subsidized) per-user cost of single occupant travel on a congested roadway far exceeds the per-user cost of transporting passengers on a bus.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:16 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
They like higher-end sources of transportation. They're not interested in taking the subway. God spare us the class warfare talk. I thought we got away from all that a while back!
Well, if you say wealthier people would avoid the subway, that's a class distinction. How would you know wealthier people would be uninterested in taking the subway? I don't following where you're getting that from and you don't have much to back it up. Looking from here, 27% of NYC subway commuters have a household income > 100k/year, very slightly higher than the city average.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:17 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Is anyone else amused by this?.
Extremely!
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:22 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
When someone in another thread provided a link that said the average ridership of a bus was only about 7 people (or something like that) there was some initial skepticism, but I think most people ultimately accepted that figure. But, when the real cost of owning and operating a car is discussed, (and yes, I understand the OP was incorrect; that it isn't the cost of operating one car, but the average annual cost per houshold) we have a twelve page thread full of replies with varying levels of disbelief. Is anyone else amused by this?



I think you'll see diminishing rates of return. When I was about 14, we bought a car for $200. (Actually my grandfather bought it for my mom, and she eventually paid him back because she didn't have $200 at the time we needed the car.) It actually ran fairly well, for a mid-70s GM product. But, we still had to: pay for basic insurance, pay for more gas than we needed to because it was a gas guzzler and because we couldn't afford to keep it tuned up properly,(and didn't have the ability to do our own maintenance) and pay for the additional repairs required because most components had reached the end of their useful life.
There have been not one but several threads about bus fuel consumption per passenger, etc. I think there is at least one poster who even now doesn't believe that buses are less (or at least no more) fuel efficient.

As far as used cars, I'm not talking about buying a $200 car. You can buy a one year old car, and "lose" a lot of the depreciation costs of a car. My daughter's bf graduated from college, got a job, saved his money like a good Minnesota boy, and bought a roughly 10 year old compact car, paid several thousands in cash for it, again like a good MN boy. That was six years ago, and he still has it, though he talks of replacing it, now that he has a better job.
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