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Old 02-15-2013, 08:26 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Well, if you say wealthier people would avoid the subway, that's a class distinction. How would you know wealthier people would be uninterested in taking the subway? I don't following where you're getting that from and you don't have much to back it up. Looking from here, 27% of NYC subway commuters have a household income > 100k/year, very slightly higher than the city average.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
1. There has been no talk of class warfare. You introduced this. The word I used was distinction, which means difference. You are implying that someone who drives a $30k car will rather take different mode than the norm based on nothing but the cost of his or her vehicle. I think I described it accurately.

2. You brought it up any conversation of class at all when you assumed that someone in NYC who drives a $30k car wouldn't take the subway.

First of all, here's an example of a $30k car:



But more importantly, on the NY subway more than any other transit in the US (I'd venture), economic classes mix. Why? It's often quicker than any street transportation at peak hours. It's just a different ballgame there.
To BOTH of you:

I did not use the word "class" at all, or talk about more than one individual, who bought a pricey (IMO), sporty car. Period. Well, I may have said "people who buy these cars" but I could have said "INDIVIDUALS who buy these cars. . .", and meant the same !^(_)}&^^% thing.

I did not use the work "distinction" at all, again, I WAS TALKING ABOUT ONE INDIVIDUAL.

 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:32 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14805
As for taxis vs subways, it'd cost a friend who lives in Brooklyn about $11,000 / year to commute. Subways would cost around $1250 / year. Sure, he could afford to burn $10,000 / year on taxis for something that for much of the time (peak or near peak hours) would be no faster and often slower, but why? A richer person would be easily able to afford the same situation, but you'd have to live rather close to work for it to be a good deal. Currently at 10:30 AM the trip is 32 minutes by public transit (add in a few mins for waiting time), 37 minutes by driving. Peak hours the choice would be stupid. Taxis do have their uses for relatively short trips, especially with others not directly on a subway line.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:33 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
To BOTH of you:

I did not use the word "class" at all, or talk about more than one individual, who bought a pricey (IMO), sporty car. Period. Well, I may have said "people who buy these cars" but I could have said "INDIVIDUALS who buy these cars. . .", and meant the same !^(_)}&^^% thing.

I did not use the work "distinction" at all, again, I WAS TALKING ABOUT ONE INDIVIDUAL.
No, you said an individual who could afford a $30k car would take a taxi in NYC because it's "higher-end", so yes, you're making a judgement based on wealth. I think that is false.

Whether it's individuals or not or has anything to do with class, I don't see where your getting your judgement from.

Last edited by nei; 02-15-2013 at 08:44 AM..
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:45 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
No, you said an individual who could afford a $30k car would take a taxi in NYC because it's "higher-end", so yes, you're making a judgement based on wealth. I think that is false.
I was still talking about an individual. Did I say afford? No, I DID NOT, and I'm really getting angry at this hijack implying that I'm talking about some type of "class" (an word I DID NOT USE) "distinction", ANOTHER WORD I DID NOT USE!

There is a huge difference between what people can "afford", and what they spend. A $30K car is not *that* expensive, when you go car shopping.

Maybe I was wrong about NYC. I'll take the word of a New Yorker that even people who own Ferraris take the subway. That's not the way it is in the movies, though!
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:48 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
The person does exist, at least the person who bought the $30K Mazda. That person is a friend of a poster on this board. They live in Michigan. Now, I have lived near Michigan, and know a lot of Michiganders, and as the poster from Mich. himself said, people there do have an affinity for spending money on cars there. IN GENERAL!

Last edited by nei; 02-16-2013 at 07:47 AM.. Reason: off topic
 
Old 02-15-2013, 09:03 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I was still talking about an individual. Did I say afford? No, I DID NOT, and I'm really getting angry at this hijack implying that I'm talking about some type of "class" (an word I DID NOT USE) "distinction", ANOTHER WORD I DID NOT USE!
My criticism was your assumption that this person wouldn't want to take the subway:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
If your friend is spending $30K on a car, he's not likely to want to take the subway. If he lived in NYC he'd probably take a cab.
I assume your reason was because of class or wealth, it was not obvious. You said nothing about class but you did call taxis "higher-end" which does sound like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Cut the sarcasm. I'm really p***ed!

The person does exist, at least the person who bought the $30K Mazda. That person is a friend of a poster on this board. They live in Michigan. Now, I have lived near Michigan, and know a lot of Michiganders, and as the poster from Mich. himself said, people there do have an affinity for spending money on cars there. IN GENERAL!
But where you would go from there to this person would avoid subways in NYC?

Quote:
There is a huge difference between what people can "afford", and what they spend. A $30K car is not *that* expensive, when you go car shopping.

Maybe I was wrong about NYC. I'll take the word of a New Yorker that even people who own Ferraris take the subway. That's not the way it is in the movies, though!
Ferraris is a bit extreme, as you said a $30k car isn't that expensive. Such a person might spend on taxis at times, but it would be a stupid waste of money to go on taxis all the time (and probably more expensive than a $30k car).
 
Old 02-15-2013, 09:12 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
My criticism was your assumption that this person wouldn't want to take the subway:



I assume your reason was because of class or wealth, it was not obvious. You said nothing about class but you did call taxis "higher-end" which does sound like it.



But where you would go from there to this person would avoid subways in NYC?



Ferraris is a bit extreme, as you said a $30k car isn't that expensive. Such a person might spend on taxis at times, but it would be a stupid waste of money to go on taxis all the time (and probably more expensive than a $30k car).
You know what happens when you assume!

I'm pretty annoyed at this entire hijack, with you two trying to make me into some type of "classist" for some reason. And both of you went out of your way to cherry pick my original posts on this subject in order to prove it. (See bold as an example.)

Is it not true that wealthy people in NY don't take the subway? Heck, not just in movies, but books and even non-fiction, it seems like the more well off do not use the subway regularly.

Last edited by nei; 02-16-2013 at 07:49 AM.. Reason: old stuff is still off topic
 
Old 02-15-2013, 09:22 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You know what happens when you assume!

I'm pretty annoyed at this entire hijack, with you two trying to make me into some type of "classist" for some reason.
It's not a hijack, you made an assumption without explaining why.

Quote:
Is it not true that wealthy people in NY don't take the subway? Heck, not just in movies, but books and even non-fiction, it seems like the more well off do not use the subway regularly.
Maybe the very wealthy, but we were talking about people who can spend $30k on a car, which sounds more like "upper-middle class". But in general, no it's not true that the well-off don't take the subway. For commuting, yes almost all use the I gave a stats link, you didn't any comment on it though. It says the amount people of people with a household income of $100k/year using the subways is slightly higher than the city as a whole.

Saying that wealthy don't use the subway is a class distinction, so my assumption that you were saying well-off = don't use subways based on class was correct.

Last edited by nei; 02-16-2013 at 07:50 AM..
 
Old 02-15-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,667 posts, read 74,628,627 times
Reputation: 48173
not so, that would be the cost of owning a new gas guzzling suv freeway pig that americans love to buy.
not the little used japanese 4 cylinders i own.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 09:50 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe not on that issue.
I thought that was the only issue. I hammered away because I thought the following was wrong and most of your responses didn't really address that issue.

Quote:
As I see it, said poster's only mistake was to say that a person who can afford the Mazda might not take the subway.
Yes, and the "who can afford the Mazda" implies there is some connection with amount of money (= class) you have and whether you would want to take the subway (in NYC). Also you said taxis. Using taxis most of the time is rather different than affording a Mazda.

Last edited by nei; 02-15-2013 at 10:06 AM..
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