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Old 02-15-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,799 times
Reputation: 199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe not on that issue. Now let's really examine this. (Sarc) Did I say "well-off"? Well, no, I didn't. What is the meaning of "well-off"? Does it mean one can afford a $30K Mazda? Or does it mean something else? And while we're at it, let's accuse another poster of trying to discuss "class" when she brought up an individual, and inadvertently used the term "people" instead of "individuals" in a post. Let's bore everyone else on this thread by hammering away until we have to "*back(s)away, slowly close(ing) door.* because said poster is so ignorant, and so uninformed that she can't understand this higher level thinking that caused her to be accused of injecting "class" into this discussion in the first place.

As I see it, said poster's only mistake was to say that a person who can afford the Mazda might not take the subway. The poster she was responding to at that time compared the price of the Mazda to the price of a transit pass. I will posit, right now, that perhaps that wasn't the point of buying the fricking Mazda in the first place. Maybe the person just wanted a Mazda and didn't care how much he could save if he lived in NYC instead of Michigan and took transit.
I mentioned my friend buying the Mazda, because he is about to move to San Fran, or NYC. He's not rich, didn't mean to imply he was, but he was like when we get to NYC he can park his car outside the city at his sisters place, and have her drive us into the city so we wouldn't need to use it. So we could walk around or use the transit.

 
Old 02-15-2013, 10:03 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I thought that was the only issue.



Yes, and the "who can afford the Mazda" implies there is some connection with amount of money (= class) you have and whether you would want to take the subway (in NYC). Also you said taxis. Using taxis most of the time is rather different than affording a Mazda.
This will be my absolute LAST post on this subject. The statement in quotes does not imply class, nor was anything I said EVER INTENDED to imply class. That is how this whole hijack started. Someone (you know who you are) tried to inject class into this discussion. I meant someone with a taste for that type of transportation, and yes, someone who can afford it, but $30K isn't in the stratosphere for a car. I saw a lot for more than that when we were looking last fall. The average worker can afford a $30K car, absent any other huge debts. So I was wrong to say they'd probably take a taxi in NYC. But I stand by everything else I said.

Last edited by nei; 02-15-2013 at 10:08 AM.. Reason: discussing moderation
 
Old 02-15-2013, 10:16 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I meant someone with a taste for that type of transportation, and yes, someone who can afford it, but $30K isn't in the stratosphere for a car.
Meh. That was not obvious. You can like nice cars and enjoy when you drive that you have a nice car, but still take a subway regularly because it's more practical driving, especially for commuting. Driving your car (and maybe even being in a taxi) through rush hour NYC traffic is not something many would choose to endure even if they like nice cars and for taxis they cost a boatload of money more than driving your own car or transit.

Quote:
I saw a lot for more than that when we were looking last fall. The average worker can afford a $30K car, absent any other huge debts. So I was wrong to say they'd probably take a taxi in NYC. But I stand by everything else I said.
There really wasn't much else in this discussion.

Last edited by nei; 02-15-2013 at 11:27 AM..
 
Old 02-15-2013, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,661,531 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There have been not one but several threads about bus fuel consumption per passenger, etc. I think there is at least one poster who even now doesn't believe that buses are less (or at least no more) fuel efficient.
I'm aware of those. Currently, the average passenger miles per gallon on a bus may be a little less than the average passenger miles per gallon in a car. But if more people started riding the bus, that could easily change. It may already be the other way around on some better/more heavily used transit systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
As far as used cars, I'm not talking about buying a $200 car. You can buy a one year old car, and "lose" a lot of the depreciation costs of a car. My daughter's bf graduated from college, got a job, saved his money like a good Minnesota boy, and bought a roughly 10 year old compact car, paid several thousands in cash for it, again like a good MN boy. That was six years ago, and he still has it, though he talks of replacing it, now that he has a better job.
I'm talking about the poor buying used cars. They don't have the luxury of buying a one year old pre-owned car, or even of saving up a few thousand dollars for an older used car.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,868,378 times
Reputation: 1925
You can spend just about anything on a vehicle. But to say the average cost of ownership for a car is $8,000 per year I find hard to accept.

My wife and I have 2 vehicles. One is a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis we bought new in 2000, so it is better than 12 years old. It cost less than 20,000 and was paid off on a 3-year loan. So its current acquisition cost is around $1,700 per year, and dropping. It has less than 50,000 miles on it and I fully intend to run it another 10 years.

The 2nd vehicle is a 1999 Dodge Caravan custom wheelchair conversion minivan, purchased used to transport my wife's power wheelchair. I bought it two years ago for $6,800 cash with 62,000 miles on it. It runs good and I fully expect to get several more years out of it. Yes, a new one runs in excess of $50,000 which is why I do not intend to go that route.

Since we have two old vehicles, I hold the insurance cost down by taking liability only. At their age the insurance company would just total them anyway so why pay for collision?

You can hold vehicle cost down, but it takes an effort. Our 4 kids were in college over two different time spans. There was two different periods we had 4 cars in the drveway at one time. But I prided myself on the fact I never traded in a car. No, I will take that back, I did trade in a 1966 Dodge Monaco on a Mercury Monarch so I did not have to be bothered with calling the junk yard to haul it away.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,799 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
You can spend just about anything on a vehicle. But to say the average cost of ownership for a car is $8,000 per year I find hard to accept.

My wife and I have 2 vehicles. One is a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis we bought new in 2000, so it is better than 12 years old. It cost less than 20,000 and was paid off on a 3-year loan. So its current acquisition cost is around $1,700 per year, and dropping. It has less than 50,000 miles on it and I fully intend to run it another 10 years.

The 2nd vehicle is a 1999 Dodge Caravan custom wheelchair conversion minivan, purchased used to transport my wife's power wheelchair. I bought it two years ago for $6,800 cash with 62,000 miles on it. It runs good and I fully expect to get several more years out of it. Yes, a new one runs in excess of $50,000 which is why I do not intend to go that route.

Since we have two old vehicles, I hold the insurance cost down by taking liability only. At their age the insurance company would just total them anyway so why pay for collision?

You can hold vehicle cost down, but it takes an effort. Our 4 kids were in college over two different time spans. There was two different periods we had 4 cars in the drveway at one time. But I prided myself on the fact I never traded in a car. No, I will take that back, I did trade in a 1966 Dodge Monaco on a Mercury Monarch so I did not have to be bothered with calling the junk yard to haul it away.
I'd find it hard to accept that most people are paying that low. The older a car gets the more maintenance it will need, or when a car gets old, most people get another.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 03:43 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I'm talking about the poor buying used cars. They don't have the luxury of buying a one year old pre-owned car, or even of saving up a few thousand dollars for an older used car.
Well, this is true. That's why there are places like Rocky's Autos.
Rocky's Autos - Colorado's Number One Used Car Dealer - Cleanest Cars in Colorado Since 1982

They will give you a loan. I think anyone with an income can buy something from them. Yes, I've been there.

Having worked a lot with really poor people, it is my experience that almost everyone has some sort of access to a vehicle. They may not own one, but their friend, their cousin, whoever has one and can give them a ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
You can spend just about anything on a vehicle. But to say the average cost of ownership for a car is $8,000 per year I find hard to accept.

My wife and I have 2 vehicles. One is a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis we bought new in 2000, so it is better than 12 years old. It cost less than 20,000 and was paid off on a 3-year loan. So its current acquisition cost is around $1,700 per year, and dropping. It has less than 50,000 miles on it and I fully intend to run it another 10 years.

The 2nd vehicle is a 1999 Dodge Caravan custom wheelchair conversion minivan, purchased used to transport my wife's power wheelchair. I bought it two years ago for $6,800 cash with 62,000 miles on it. It runs good and I fully expect to get several more years out of it. Yes, a new one runs in excess of $50,000 which is why I do not intend to go that route.

Since we have two old vehicles, I hold the insurance cost down by taking liability only. At their age the insurance company would just total them anyway so why pay for collision?

You can hold vehicle cost down, but it takes an effort. Our 4 kids were in college over two different time spans. There was two different periods we had 4 cars in the drveway at one time. But I prided myself on the fact I never traded in a car. No, I will take that back, I did trade in a 1966 Dodge Monaco on a Mercury Monarch so I did not have to be bothered with calling the junk yard to haul it away.
Agree, esp. with the bold.

We gave our last car to charity.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 06:32 PM
 
2,114 posts, read 4,187,927 times
Reputation: 976
If you're lucky enough to live in a city with a good transit system, get a monthly pass and rent a car when you need one.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 06:47 PM
 
12,302 posts, read 15,205,734 times
Reputation: 8109
We need to eliminate the gas tax and replace it with a mileage tax. Most lawn mowers run on gasoline and never run on the highways. Electric cars, so far a small part of the mix, pay no gas tax. And make it high enough that you pay 75% of the cost of the roads. Ideally make it so you pay more during high traffic volumes. A six lane highway may only be used to capacity four hours a day, the rest of the time two lanes will do.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 07:29 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
We need to eliminate the gas tax and replace it with a mileage tax. Most lawn mowers run on gasoline and never run on the highways. Electric cars, so far a small part of the mix, pay no gas tax. And make it high enough that you pay 75% of the cost of the roads. Ideally make it so you pay more during high traffic volumes. A six lane highway may only be used to capacity four hours a day, the rest of the time two lanes will do.
Why not just raise the gas tax? Simpler, and I don't see it that bad that cars that consume less gas pay less, it's extra, but not all that high incentive.
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