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Old 02-14-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,668,317 times
Reputation: 4508

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
I enjoy my job. It has nothing to do with lateral thinking. My goal in life is not to work as little as possible. I came into the office last saturday and put in a few hours simply because I had an idea that I was excited about and wanted to put some work into it.

Having a job I look forward to coming to is what I do to improve my quality of life. Sitting around waiting for a bus or living in a smaller place so that I was closer to the office is the exact opposite of improving quality of life. Improving quality of life is owning a car so that I can throw camping gear in it, take my dog and drive out and go camping/backpacking on a whim without worrying about renting a car, cleaning it if it is dirty, etc. when I am done. Improving quality of life is being able to decide on a whim to go to a happy hour at the last minute and not have to worry about whether or not a bus or train is running at 2am when I leave the bar.

Having a car dramatically improves my quality of life. Wasting hours upon hours every month planning routes, waiting for public transit and taking extra time on a bike lowers my quality of life.
Somewhat off-topic, but since we're sharing personal accounts, I'll share mine.

I don't have the option to drive. So for me, living in a place that isn't auto dependent is a must for a higher quality of life. Generally, I try to be a "live and let live" type of guy. But I can't help but have some resentment toward the automobile, because the saturation of the automobile into our society over the last 50-60 years has greatly reduced the number of options for those people who don't want to--or can't--drive.

Getting back on topic a little: While I don't think it has been discussed much--if at all--in this thread, there is the issue of the poorer members of our society being pushed into greater financial distress by needing a car to sustain themselves. The everyday expenses of owning/operating a car (gas, maintenance, etc.) are the same regardless of wealth.

 
Old 02-14-2013, 01:33 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,440,356 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Somewhat off-topic, but since we're sharing personal accounts, I'll share mine.

I don't have the option to drive. So for me, living in a place that isn't auto dependent is a must for a higher quality of life. Generally, I try to be a "live and let live" type of guy. But I can't help but have some resentment toward the automobile, because the saturation of the automobile into our society over the last 50-60 years has greatly reduced the number of options for those people who don't want to--or can't--drive.

Getting back on topic a little: While I don't think it has been discussed much--if at all--in this thread, there is the issue of the poorer members of our society being pushed into greater financial distress by needing a car to sustain themselves. The everyday expenses of owning/operating a car (gas, maintenance, etc.) are the same regardless of wealth.
Sorry for pulling the thread a bit off topic, but it is definitely an interesting discussion. I can understand the frustration of people who might not want to necessarily drive, but I see that as any given technology. It is a double edged sword. Yes cars are expensive, but we can do things as a society that we never could without cars. The same can be said for the internet, cell phones, robotics, industrialized manufacturing, etc...
 
Old 02-14-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,115,006 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Sorry for pulling the thread a bit off topic, but it is definitely an interesting discussion. I can understand the frustration of people who might not want to necessarily drive, but I see that as any given technology. It is a double edged sword. Yes cars are expensive, but we can do things as a society that we never could without cars. The same can be said for the internet, cell phones, robotics, industrialized manufacturing, etc...
I'm surprised you took JR-C's comment to say anything about the complete absence, or elimination, of cars. There is no inherent reason that society be built around the automobile, and I think JR-C was griping that it is (in the US), overwhelmingly.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 01:51 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,440,356 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I'm surprised you took JR-C's comment to say anything about the complete absence, or elimination, of cars. There is no inherent reason that society be built around the automobile, and I think JR-C was griping that it is (in the US), overwhelmingly.
I was using that as an example to make a point, I know that JR-C never asked to completely get rid of a car. Sorry for my poor wording... I somewhat with what you said though. There are reasons to build society around the idea that a person can control their own transportation. For 95% of people, not owning a car is a very costly sacrifice in terms of time alone. I think there is no reason not to build a society around the idea that a person has the technology to freely transport themselves wherever they want, whenever they want.

The idea of not having a personal car and giving up the freedom that it grants me (beyond bikes/rentals and public transit) is easily worth $8,000 per year to me, as per the dollar figure given in the original post.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 03:49 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,326,456 times
Reputation: 5175
First I would like to thank all the people who are making good arguments against cars and explaining why they are so expensive. I am all for people who want to give up their cars. Hell I wish most people would give up their cars.

Then there will be less traffic on the road and more parking spaces. Let me tell you it is really hard for me to wind up my corvette when there is all this traffic. Let the poor people ride the busses and leave the roads less occupied.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,668,317 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
First I would like to thank all the people who are making good arguments against cars and explaining why they are so expensive. I am all for people who want to give up their cars. Hell I wish most people would give up their cars.

Then there will be less traffic on the road and more parking spaces. Let me tell you it is really hard for me to wind up my corvette when there is all this traffic. Let the poor people ride the busses and leave the roads less occupied.
Sure, owning 2 houses while restoring one has made my budget tight, but it would be impossible if I also had to pay for gas, maintenance, and insurance (at least) for some car.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
3,082 posts, read 3,174,010 times
Reputation: 1599
8,000 seems a bit high,unless you're driving a new expensive one with car payments...and new cars require less maintenance anyway. And unless you're doing alot of driving/traveling...shouldn't cost you more than 2,000,which is still probably high to those who don't need to drive in the first place
 
Old 02-14-2013, 06:51 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,035 posts, read 102,723,474 times
Reputation: 33084
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Getting back on topic a little: While I don't think it has been discussed much--if at all--in this thread, there is the issue of the poorer members of our society being pushed into greater financial distress by needing a car to sustain themselves. The everyday expenses of owning/operating a car (gas, maintenance, etc.) are the same regardless of wealth.
First of all, most people on this forum don't seem to much care about poor people.

Secondly, one can buy a second hand car, which greatly reduces ownership costs. One can do one's own maintenance if possible. Only the price of gas is the same.

Add: These numbers do not take into account high efficiency cars vs gas guzzlers, either.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 875,014 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Somewhat off-topic, but since we're sharing personal accounts, I'll share mine.

I don't have the option to drive. So for me, living in a place that isn't auto dependent is a must for a higher quality of life. Generally, I try to be a "live and let live" type of guy. But I can't help but have some resentment toward the automobile, because the saturation of the automobile into our society over the last 50-60 years has greatly reduced the number of options for those people who don't want to--or can't--drive.

Getting back on topic a little: While I don't think it has been discussed much--if at all--in this thread, there is the issue of the poorer members of our society being pushed into greater financial distress by needing a car to sustain themselves. The everyday expenses of owning/operating a car (gas, maintenance, etc.) are the same regardless of wealth.
Good point.

But the car-dependent who so far control the political agenda in most cities, presume:

+ THEIR right to drive wherever they want, and have convenient parking must be perserved
+ THEY have the right to expect others to pay for half of highway upkeep through sales taxes
+ US Military personnel must risk their lives "to keep the oil flowing", and everyone must be taxed to keep a global military presence that costs American twice as much per capita as any of its allies
+ We all must breathe toxic air, contaminated by car exhaust
+ Precious oil reserves must be burned up (at low) prices so they can keep driving

You are angry, and have a right to be so !

A fairer system would increase taxes on gasoline, so these various subsidies and incentives-to-drive disappear. Then the US might have $6-10 per gallon gasoline, as most advanced countries on our planet have. The higher prices would accelerate the trend away from suburban living.

Last edited by Geologic; 02-14-2013 at 08:37 PM..
 
Old 02-14-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 875,014 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
First of all, most people on this forum don't seem to much care about poor people.

Secondly, one can buy a second hand car, which greatly reduces ownership costs. One can do one's own maintenance if possible. Only the price of gas is the same.

Add: These numbers do not take into account high efficiency cars vs gas guzzlers, either.
K.,
The numbers WILL take into account the downsizing of cars, when the average person starts doing more of that. The figures are based on what people actually do -- on average
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