U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-23-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,102 posts, read 102,884,582 times
Reputation: 33159

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
0% financing does not mean Zero capital cost, you still have to pay back the principal amount of the loan
Well, 0% financing does seem to be popular right now, what with the tax-deductibility of interest payments severely restricted. Of course, you have to pay back the loan. It is also possible to buy a used car. Several of the cars we have owned during our 33 year marriage have been purchased used. The costs for a car, other than acquisition, are not that high.

 
Old 02-23-2013, 09:43 AM
 
9,527 posts, read 14,908,544 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Thanks for the figures. They seem to add up, but you have forgotten:

+ The capital cost, including depreciation or financing cost of the vehicle, and
+ Parking and tolls.

Add these, and you could easily double the cost.
We've been through this in another thread. You can't get the cost of owning and operating a car by brainstorming all the costs involved with a car and adding them up; you're sure to miss some and double count others that way. Nor can you get the average amount spent on fuel by dividing average miles driven by average mileage and multiplying by average cost per gallon; this is a more subtle point but it is true, and easy to demonstrate.

Actual costs per US household in 2010 for all transportation, minus public transportation, is $7184. Vehicles per household, 1.9. Thus per vehicle cost is $3781.
 
Old 02-23-2013, 11:04 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I read that one time, perhaps not true. It seemed very dense when I was there. I figured that's why their birth rate is so low; there's just too many people there, period. Who needs any more?
I looked the density of Amsterdam's denser residential neighborhoods. Found a couple of sources. One said Oud-West, just to the west of the canal areas, was among the densest neighborhoods in Amsterdam. Its population density is just under 50,000 people per square mile. That's similar to a few areas in or around the city center of Boston and Philadelphia, though Amsterdam has more of these neighborhoods at this density. For New York City, all residential neighborhood in the city centers are denser, most much more. It's about the same density as an average Brooklyn neighborhood, including this one where I saw dogs in front of a supermarket. So I wouldn't pick up on it being very dense, though it's definitely high density IMO.

One thing I did like about Amsterdam was, for its density Amsterdam was surprisingly quiet. The areas by the canal didn't really have any fast-moving car traffic, and outside most of the residential didn't get much thru-traffic due to being ungridded. While the streets look often treeless, judging from google satellite, behind the apartment buildings Amsterdam does a decent job of incorporating greenery, especially as you go away from the canal areas. Looking at streetview, I see a bit more trees than I remember, probably because I visited in January, which makes the city feel gloomier.
 
Old 02-23-2013, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,376 posts, read 7,555,015 times
Reputation: 15997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post

"Car dependency is draining the wealth of our nation. And the drain will get worse and worse if/when the dollar sinks. We need to address this dependency sooner, not later."

Beyond this, we can debate how best to "address the challenge of excessive car dependency."

Do you really disagree with this? If you do, on what basis, if you please !
Along with the telephone, the personal computer and the privately held firearm, the private vehicle is one of the four devices which have kept Big Brother and Big Sister from getting too big. That's precisely why the so-called "progressives" -- the little fellows and little girls with big plans and big egos, are so resentful of it.

They promise blue skies -- but what actually emerges is the gray world of socialized Europe. And let's not forget that that supposedly "enlightened" system delivered some very dirty laundry between 1914 and 1945.

We'll pass, thanks; just don't come around seeking to tamper with our lives and lawful property, and we won't interfere with your delusions which, without access to the state's power to coerce, are self-limiting.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-23-2013 at 03:15 PM..
 
Old 02-23-2013, 04:05 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,132,359 times
Reputation: 3118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, 0% financing does seem to be popular right now, what with the tax-deductibility of interest payments severely restricted. Of course, you have to pay back the loan. It is also possible to buy a used car. Several of the cars we have owned during our 33 year marriage have been purchased used. The costs for a car, other than acquisition, are not that high.
Wait - there was a point in time when interest on a car loan was tax-deductible?
 
Old 02-23-2013, 04:15 PM
 
9,527 posts, read 14,908,544 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Wait - there was a point in time when interest on a car loan was tax-deductible?
Yes, but it was a long time ago. The mortgage-interest deduction did not come about as a boon to home buyers; rather, it used to be that all loan interest was tax deductible, and that was taken away with an exception for mortgages.
 
Old 02-23-2013, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 877,618 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Along with the telephone, the personal computer and the privately held firearm, the private vehicle is one of the four devices which have kept Big Brother and Big Sister from getting too big...
They promise blue skies -- but what actually emerges is the gray world of socialized Europe. And let's not forget that that supposedly "enlightened" system delivered some very dirty laundry between 1914 and 1945.

We'll pass, thanks; just don't come around seeking to tamper with our lives and lawful property, and we won't interfere with your delusions which, without access to the state's power to coerce, are self-limiting.
I have seen this sort of comment before - it doesn't hold water IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalRockSuperstar
(The US succeeded with cars and oil) by being more productive with it - and that US has been more productive than most of the rest of the world during the 20th century.
trouble now is that the US economy has become so sovietised that it has little or no competitive advantage over the other tax farms on planet Earth.
fixed.
That's an interesting perspective.

When the US had less competition for the oil, and production was rising rapidly, prices stayed low, and the US was able to build up its (wasteful?) suburban infrastructure. Now it is a liability, draining American wealth, disabling the US wealth-producing machine. It can be changed, but it is slow to change, and will be expensive. Or the US can try to keep the suburbs intact, and see its significance in the world fade - as happened to Spain, which stayed wedded to a failing infrastructure - see video:


TEDx1000Lakes - Chuck Marohn - The important difference between a road and a street - YouTube
 
Old 02-23-2013, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 877,618 times
Reputation: 217
(There was an interest deduction for loans on cars):
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Yes, but it was a long time ago. The mortgage-interest deduction did not come about as a boon to home buyers; rather, it used to be that all loan interest was tax deductible, and that was taken away with an exception for mortgages.
And how did that work out?
We had a nice housing boom from 2002-2006, as people borrowed as much as they could to speculate on an eternal house price rise. No doubt, the deduction for mortgage interest, helped to fuel that boom, much of which was directed towards building McMansions in the outer ring suburbs. Some of those big homes will never be lived in - and will wind up as firewood. The only benefit the owner got was a few years of interest tax deduction. And there were some unproductive jobs created in construction.

Thanks to the interest rate deduction - and people are saying that opening ones eyes and seeing the destruction wrought by our suburban way of living is socialistic somehow - what a nonsense !
 
Old 02-23-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,376 posts, read 7,555,015 times
Reputation: 15997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
I have seen this sort of comment before - it doesn't hold water IMO.
Which has been the stock-in-trade answer of those seeking power from time immemorial.

And as a very wise man said well over a century ago; "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
 
Old 02-23-2013, 05:50 PM
 
9,527 posts, read 14,908,544 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
And how did that work out?
We had a nice housing boom from 2002-2006, as people borrowed as much as they could to speculate on an eternal house price rise.
The narrowing of the consumer loan interest deduction to the mortgage interest deduction happened in 1986. Trying to tie that to events in 2002 is bizarre.

You just keep beating your anti-suburban anti-car drum over and over, as if repetition will substitute for actual evidence. And you have none.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top