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Old 02-16-2013, 09:34 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,105,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks View Post
We visited NYC in December and while it was an amazing trip, the reliance on public transportation bothered me. I felt to trapped, especially on the subway. You have to plan everything. You had to know your destination and what lines to connect to and just wow. And you have no control, you've left everything to your local government to ensure everything runs smoothly.

I know exactly what is wrong with my car and I control how I use it. I can change directions or destinations, and often do, with the turn of my wheel. And I don't have to share space with strangers. Like I said, it was fun by after 24 hours I had enough. I wanted out, too many people, too much planning. However, I see how it is a requirement with that many people.
Wait, so do you live somewhere with only private roads? Or do you rely on your local government to make repairs, improvements, etc?

I'm also not sure why using google trip planer is any more onerous than getting directions to a place.

 
Old 02-16-2013, 10:05 AM
 
3,463 posts, read 4,542,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Love Louisville. Haven't been in years but I made sure to pedal down Hunter Thompsons street.
Thats a very desirable neighborhood, now. Big $$$$$$ as anything close to Cherokee is.
Im in the Highlands. Ive lived/spent time in quite a few states and this is item for item the best place Ive ever lived. Who woulda thought

Hope you can make it back sometime
 
Old 02-16-2013, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,784 posts, read 23,813,363 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
But, please at least TRY to address these questions:

1. Are you concerned about the vulnerability that car-dependent people, and a car-dependent country have to rising oil prices?

2. Have you thought deeply about why America is getting poorer, and why some other countries, which are also oil importers (but much less per capita) are getting richer? And I mean getting behind the headlines, and superficial nonsense you read in the mainstream media, and trying to really understand what is happening.

(#2 might be a very interesting topic for discussion, if people want to take the thread that way.)
I like urban development and support a high density urban core in decent sized cities.

However...in my opinion:

(1) No, I'm not worried at all about rising oil prices. I view this as a very manipulated and temporary blip in the energy market. In looking at reserves discovered during the past decade or so, especially outside of the Middle East, plus the massive leaps in technology in terms of sustainable alternative energy the past couple of decades I view the cost problem as evaporating (pun intended...) over the next 20-25 years.

(2) America is getting a little bit poorer due to the internationalization (if that is a word) of the economy. We are kind of treading water economically speaking, with a greater problem of wealth distribution than overall wealth. As the other large world economies get much wealthier (and at a very quick rate) we eventually will begin to get some upward economic momentum as a whole. Our wealth is far greater than many other large nations, and there is some leveling out taking place internationally (which I view as a good thing as long as we generally don't decline more than only a little bit).
 
Old 02-16-2013, 10:22 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks View Post
We visited NYC in December and while it was an amazing trip, the reliance on public transportation bothered me. I felt to trapped, especially on the subway. You have to plan everything. You had to know your destination and what lines to connect to and just wow. And you have no control, you've left everything to your local government to ensure everything runs smoothly.

I know exactly what is wrong with my car and I control how I use it. I can change directions or destinations, and often do, with the turn of my wheel. And I don't have to share space with strangers. Like I said, it was fun by after 24 hours I had enough. I wanted out, too many people, too much planning. However, I see how it is a requirement with that many people.
Once you get familiar with it, you know what lines go where and what's the best route for your destination, not much planning is required in determining how to go. And if you're a subway geek, you may start to memorize large portions of the system. You don't have any control over what the subway does, but you are reliant on the roads and highways your local government chose to built. You're at the whim at the government if the subway gets delayed, but traffic congestion is out of your control. Not saying that driving isn't more flexible, just that some of things you mentioned are the same everything.

As for sharing with strangers, I don't mind within limits, I find it makes things more interesting.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 10:30 AM
 
3,463 posts, read 4,542,550 times
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Here is another peripheral plus of engineering more ped traffic into an area. This is the first google item that came up, but there are about 5000000000 more just like it. Quantifiable data to support increasing ped and bike traffic benefits business.

Report: Bike Lanes, Pedestrian Plazas Good for Businesses - Metropolis - WSJ
 
Old 02-16-2013, 10:43 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Though it's hard to separate cause-and-effect, these selected neighborhoods might have been ones already undergoing fast improvement. As for Union Square, how many commercial vacancies are there in the first place? The vast majority of people there walk or take to transit there anyway.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 04:14 PM
 
936 posts, read 1,057,662 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Wait, so do you live somewhere with only private roads? Or do you rely on your local government to make repairs, improvements, etc?

I'm also not sure why using google trip planer is any more onerous than getting directions to a place.

HAHAHA this is funny if you can see the state of my road. I live on a dirt road and lets just say they've been a little lax with the pot holes fr the past two years. As in we all drive off the side of the road near the end because its smoother than the road. And I've been known to drive my car through a field or two. LOL last week I was coming down our road and saw my crazy neighbor hauling ass through the field that connects our two road. Granted there was snow in the field at the time, but he's not known for being the most ummm we'll say careful, with his vehicles.

Friday night, during NEMO we had a 50th birthday party for my Mom and had to drive home at 1am. Well they'd decided to stop plowing for the night and I was glad my husband brought his Tahoe because we were driving through at least 10+ inches of snow on the roads. The drifts were like waves. It was an interesting 2 mile trip home. But at least I wasn't reliant on public transportation, which may have been closed at time like that.

So yes the government takes care of the roads, but I would most definitely be able to use my car even if they stopped. If the snow was too deep we have a backhoe and a plow, we would do just fine.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 873,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks View Post
We visited NYC in December and while it was an amazing trip, the reliance on public transportation bothered me. I felt to trapped, especially on the subway. You have to plan everything. You had to know your destination and what lines to connect to and just wow. And you have no control, you've left everything to your local government to ensure everything runs smoothly.

I know exactly what is wrong with my car and I control how I use it. I can change directions or destinations, and often do, with the turn of my wheel. And I don't have to share space with strangers. Like I said, it was fun by after 24 hours I had enough. I wanted out, too many people, too much planning. However, I see how it is a requirement with that many people.
What about parking?
Parking creates a big headache in an "proper" urban area - And by that I mean one designed for pedestrians rather than cars.


I once met the designer of this building, Chicago's first modern highrise apartment

The whole dynamic in the debate of Carfree versus Car-dependent debate is mainly about the location and the amount of parking:

+ Pedestrians want less of it; perhaps none at all, since it gets in the way, is an eyesore and attracts more cars which makes the streets more crowded and more dangerous. (And the air more noxious.)

+ Car users want it everywhere, so they can drive right up to their destinations

The more public transport their is, the less parking there needs to be. But if you start off with a city designed for car-owners, there will be a struggle to transform a city, so it is ideal for pedestrians. Drivers will not want to pay for the construction public transport, nor will they want to give up any of "their" parking. And guess what?, if most people already own cars, there may be few votes for the transformation of the city into areas where cars are "unhappy" and pedestrians are served ahead of car-owners.

Many city planners have accepted the idea that parts of their cities should be designed for the carfree, but the face a wall of opposition from a constituency that already own cars, and do want to see a change that will inconvenience drivers.

Last edited by Geologic; 02-16-2013 at 04:25 PM..
 
Old 02-16-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 873,136 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
(2) America is getting a little bit poorer due to the internationalization (if that is a word) of the economy. We are kind of treading water economically speaking, with a greater problem of wealth distribution than overall wealth. As the other large world economies get much wealthier (and at a very quick rate) we eventually will begin to get some upward economic momentum as a whole. Our wealth is far greater than many other large nations, and there is some leveling out taking place internationally (which I view as a good thing as long as we generally don't decline more than only a little bit).
You have been lied to by mass media about what is going on. The media are owned by the same people who are benefiting from a system that impoverishes the American Middle Class.

How can America EVER get wealthier when it is suffering from FOUR HUGE CASH DRAINS ?:

+ The high cost of car-dependency, since half of Americans live in the suburbs and the average American spends $8,000+ per annum on his/her car - with sizable chunk of that paid away for importing foreign oil*,

+ The high cost of the US military, engaged in foreign entanglements - to "keep the oil flowing" (and also to benefit the middle eastern state of Israel.) Americans spend at least twice as much per capita on their military as do their allies in European countries. Apart for oil dependency, who is more "at risk", Americans or Europeans?

+ The high cost of the American healthcare system. It already costs about double per capita of what healthcare costs in Europe. And it delivers less, with America's longevity being about #40 in the world. (Hong Kong, Macau, and Japan are: 1,23 in longevity.) Sadly, the US healthcare system is being overhauled now to serve Big Pharma and insurance companies even more, and will get even more expensive.

+ The US system of finance is predatory, and politicians are owned by Wall Street banks. Many laws were broken over the last decade, and almost no banksters have gone to jail. Look back over the past few decades and you will see a series of cycles, where banks encourage more borrowing and risk-taking, and then when things go wrong (as is inevitable, when the risks are so high), the banks get bailed out, and taxpayers are made to pay for it.
. . .

If you want to see American get wealthier then you need to wake up about what is happening : Think about it, talk about it (as I am doing), and insist that you will only vote for politicians that will truly do something about it. Fighting car-dependency, and spending for housing dollars in areas suitable for the carfree is another way you can help to close the cash drains.

You have to accept that you are surrounded by people who cannot see the obvious, and are brainwashed to go on draining their money away. And that will harm you too, because all those dollars put in the hands of foreigners will weaken the dollar. Eventually, the weak dollar will bring higher dollar oil prices, which will create an economic environment which will eventually force the car dependent to squander less money on their cars. The scary thing is, that it might also create pressure for more military engagements to get access to more cheap oil.

Can you not also see that this oil and car dependency also threatens the world as a whole?

=== ===
*The $8,000+ per annum figure is discussed here : The Real Cost of Owning a car per household? $8,000+ per annum
27 Barrels per annum per capita x $95 = $2,565 p.a., almost half of which is imported

Last edited by Geologic; 02-16-2013 at 04:59 PM..
 
Old 02-16-2013, 04:56 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,838,412 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
You have been lied to by mass media about what is going on. The media are owned by the same people who are benefiting from a system that impoverishes the American Middle Class.

How can America EVER get wealthier when it is suffering from FOUR HUGE CASH DRAINS ?:

+ The high cost of car-dependency, since half of Americans live in the suburbs and the average American spends $8,000+ per annum on his/her car - with sizable chunk of that paid away for importing foreign oil*,
Apparently you missed some of the other threads. Bus mass transit is no more efficient than the automobile, so switching from personal cars to buses doesn't work. Electric rail mass transit is far too expensive in most areas, and if you implemented it in less-dense areas you'd see its efficiency drop precipitously. Transportation is expensive and uses a lot of energy, no matter what the mode.

Also, the "$8000+" turns out to be household spending, not per-car spending. And that's not the "average American", it's the average over all Americans.
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