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0% financing does not mean Zero capital cost, you still have to pay back the principal amount of the loan
Well, 0% financing does seem to be popular right now, what with the tax-deductibility of interest payments severely restricted. Of course, you have to pay back the loan. It is also possible to buy a used car. Several of the cars we have owned during our 33 year marriage have been purchased used. The costs for a car, other than acquisition, are not that high.
Thanks for the figures. They seem to add up, but you have forgotten:
+ The capital cost, including depreciation or financing cost of the vehicle, and
+ Parking and tolls.
Add these, and you could easily double the cost.
We've been through this in another thread. You can't get the cost of owning and operating a car by brainstorming all the costs involved with a car and adding them up; you're sure to miss some and double count others that way. Nor can you get the average amount spent on fuel by dividing average miles driven by average mileage and multiplying by average cost per gallon; this is a more subtle point but it is true, and easy to demonstrate.
Actual costs per US household in 2010 for all transportation, minus public transportation, is $7184. Vehicles per household, 1.9. Thus per vehicle cost is $3781.
I read that one time, perhaps not true. It seemed very dense when I was there. I figured that's why their birth rate is so low; there's just too many people there, period. Who needs any more?
I looked the density of Amsterdam's denser residential neighborhoods. Found a couple of sources. One said Oud-West, just to the west of the canal areas, was among the densest neighborhoods in Amsterdam. Its population density is just under 50,000 people per square mile. That's similar to a few areas in or around the city center of Boston and Philadelphia, though Amsterdam has more of these neighborhoods at this density. For New York City, all residential neighborhood in the city centers are denser, most much more. It's about the same density as an average Brooklyn neighborhood, including this one where I saw dogs in front of a supermarket. So I wouldn't pick up on it being very dense, though it's definitely high density IMO.
One thing I did like about Amsterdam was, for its density Amsterdam was surprisingly quiet. The areas by the canal didn't really have any fast-moving car traffic, and outside most of the residential didn't get much thru-traffic due to being ungridded. While the streets look often treeless, judging from google satellite, behind the apartment buildings Amsterdam does a decent job of incorporating greenery, especially as you go away from the canal areas. Looking at streetview, I see a bit more trees than I remember, probably because I visited in January, which makes the city feel gloomier.
"Car dependency is draining the wealth of our nation. And the drain will get worse and worse if/when the dollar sinks. We need to address this dependency sooner, not later."
Beyond this, we can debate how best to "address the challenge of excessive car dependency."
Do you really disagree with this? If you do, on what basis, if you please !
Along with the telephone, the personal computer and the privately held firearm, the private vehicle is one of the four devices which have kept Big Brother and Big Sister from getting too big. That's precisely why the so-called "progressives" -- the little fellows and little girls with big plans and big egos, are so resentful of it.
They promise blue skies -- but what actually emerges is the gray world of socialized Europe. And let's not forget that that supposedly "enlightened" system delivered some very dirty laundry between 1914 and 1945.
We'll pass, thanks; just don't come around seeking to tamper with our lives and lawful property, and we won't interfere with your delusions which, without access to the state's power to coerce, are self-limiting.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-23-2013 at 03:15 PM..
Well, 0% financing does seem to be popular right now, what with the tax-deductibility of interest payments severely restricted. Of course, you have to pay back the loan. It is also possible to buy a used car. Several of the cars we have owned during our 33 year marriage have been purchased used. The costs for a car, other than acquisition, are not that high.
Wait - there was a point in time when interest on a car loan was tax-deductible?
Wait - there was a point in time when interest on a car loan was tax-deductible?
Yes, but it was a long time ago. The mortgage-interest deduction did not come about as a boon to home buyers; rather, it used to be that all loan interest was tax deductible, and that was taken away with an exception for mortgages.
Along with the telephone, the personal computer and the privately held firearm, the private vehicle is one of the four devices which have kept Big Brother and Big Sister from getting too big...
They promise blue skies -- but what actually emerges is the gray world of socialized Europe. And let's not forget that that supposedly "enlightened" system delivered some very dirty laundry between 1914 and 1945.
We'll pass, thanks; just don't come around seeking to tamper with our lives and lawful property, and we won't interfere with your delusions which, without access to the state's power to coerce, are self-limiting.
I have seen this sort of comment before - it doesn't hold water IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalRockSuperstar
(The US succeeded with cars and oil) by being more productive with it - and that US has been more productive than most of the rest of the world during the 20th century.
trouble now is that the US economy has become so sovietised that it has little or no competitive advantage over the other tax farms on planet Earth.
fixed.
That's an interesting perspective.
When the US had less competition for the oil, and production was rising rapidly, prices stayed low, and the US was able to build up its (wasteful?) suburban infrastructure. Now it is a liability, draining American wealth, disabling the US wealth-producing machine. It can be changed, but it is slow to change, and will be expensive. Or the US can try to keep the suburbs intact, and see its significance in the world fade - as happened to Spain, which stayed wedded to a failing infrastructure - see video:
(There was an interest deduction for loans on cars):
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
Yes, but it was a long time ago. The mortgage-interest deduction did not come about as a boon to home buyers; rather, it used to be that all loan interest was tax deductible, and that was taken away with an exception for mortgages.
And how did that work out?
We had a nice housing boom from 2002-2006, as people borrowed as much as they could to speculate on an eternal house price rise. No doubt, the deduction for mortgage interest, helped to fuel that boom, much of which was directed towards building McMansions in the outer ring suburbs. Some of those big homes will never be lived in - and will wind up as firewood. The only benefit the owner got was a few years of interest tax deduction. And there were some unproductive jobs created in construction.
Thanks to the interest rate deduction - and people are saying that opening ones eyes and seeing the destruction wrought by our suburban way of living is socialistic somehow - what a nonsense !
And how did that work out?
We had a nice housing boom from 2002-2006, as people borrowed as much as they could to speculate on an eternal house price rise.
The narrowing of the consumer loan interest deduction to the mortgage interest deduction happened in 1986. Trying to tie that to events in 2002 is bizarre.
You just keep beating your anti-suburban anti-car drum over and over, as if repetition will substitute for actual evidence. And you have none.
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