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Old 03-13-2013, 11:32 AM
 
3,946 posts, read 4,049,620 times
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Quote:
what are your opinions for the Urban Planning standards I said up to now?
Generally, they are too automobile oriented. Setbacks appropriate to 40mph instead of 5mph. Large buffer zones between different types (multifamily/sfh,retail) instead of mixed use. Parking lot regulations too high (currently many have it set at 1 spot per 100 sq ft). Single use big box stores and malls not able to divided as those end their useful lives. Mass transit using existing rail right-of-ways rather than based on creating links to existing dense locations. Streets too wide with too many lanes.

 
Old 03-13-2013, 12:20 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,857,539 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
OK, then, define these words:

Pleasant
Relatively
Too Much
Healthy
Positive
Refined
Almost Utopian Like
High Quality
Vibrant
Not so good
Mediocre
Comfortable
Relaxing
Benefits
Large
Exciting
Variety
Visually Pleasant
Objectively ugly
Best
Frequent
A lot
Minimizing
A Lack of
Progress
Evenly Distributed
Effective
User Friendly
Balance
Some
Inviting
Character
Plenty
Lack
Successful
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't usually go around pointing out people's typographical errors. That stuff was so poorly written, however, it was difficult to read. And it is certainly not "eloquent, sophisticated, and perfect". It's not specific at all. What does "Pleasant" mean, for example? Relatively? Lack of Too(sic) Much"? What do Good, Frequent, Plenty of Character, Visually Pleasant, Objectively Ugly, etc mean? I'd like to see a definition for every one of the words in bold.
Technically any word someone writes has a separate definition.

If you seriously donít know what those specific words indicate related to those standards and exact context, then just look it up yourself. Its not my job to teach someone simple grammar.

For the second quoted post, I know you are just joking and I am done with this debate because it would go nowhere and itís a waste of my time. I rather focus on positive optimistic thinking and words.

The post I wrote was specific, informative, high quality, and intriguing for the topic. That certainly was eloquent, sophisticated, and perfect. If you somehow donít really see that, whatever. Do you think I care? Of course not.

Please stay on topic for actual Urban Planning and not off topic negative sarcasm.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 12:24 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,857,539 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOverdog View Post
Some of these are contradictory in the real world. No way you can have invoke terms about land use and beauty without creating addtional bureaucracy. If you want little bureaucracy, then you let people build what they want and let the market sort it out. Every level of additional rules creates additional bureaucracy.

Now you might mean that a single bureaucracy determines all these standards, which if you were trying to apply it to cities/suburbs/exurbs equally would have to be at the state level. And the enforcers of it would also be state level.

Oh, and asking the free market to create dwellings with high but poorly defined standards of beauty (the "I know it when I see it" rule) and picking winners and losers in commercial construction leads to massive corruption. If you want all this, you have to accept a relatively high level of corruption, higher than we currently have.
No, that is not contradictory. All of those standards and characteristics is realistic for real life implementation and practical actions in Urban Planning for Cities and Towns all over the world.

Yes, a simple bureaucracy system has to be established to determine and make use of all of those standards.

Most of the corruption can be prevented and minimized when having well established objective standards. There would be a lower level of corruption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOverdog View Post
Generally, they are too automobile oriented. Setbacks appropriate to 40mph instead of 5mph. Large buffer zones between different types (multifamily/sfh,retail) instead of mixed use. Parking lot regulations too high (currently many have it set at 1 spot per 100 sq ft). Single use big box stores and malls not able to divided as those end their useful lives. Mass transit using existing rail right-of-ways rather than based on creating links to existing dense locations. Streets too wide with too many lanes.
I guess some people didn’t even read and remember certain standards that they did agree with.

Standards 5, and 10 are not automobile oriented:

“5. Good Zoning, Land Use, and Mixed Use Planning Laws Being Implemented at a Frequent Amount.”

“10. Encourage Forms of Evenly Distributed, and User Friendly Public Transportation."
 
Old 03-13-2013, 12:30 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,857,539 times
Reputation: 3064
The simple purpose and worth of this topic was to first write a list of 14 high quality standards related to urban planning, for other people to say more standards in brief list format, and more positive optimism and not too much negative pessimism. After that, further explanation for each of those standards and characteristics.


When I wrote the first post, I had a busy day and just had 30 minutes to write and that was excellent for the amount of time to write that post. Remember, people have busy lives and posting is not supposed to be so pretentious and criticized so easily… Its not like this is someone’s career or college education college papers and test exams. Lets all relax, just stay on topic, focus on what we do agree with, and the high quality entertainment in posting.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,401 posts, read 59,899,964 times
Reputation: 54046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
If you seriously don’t know what those specific words indicate related to those standards and exact context, then just look it up yourself. Its not my job to teach someone simple grammar.
I'm not surprised you missed the point ...

which is ...

the words you're using are wildly subjective and cannot be used in a planning document.

Subjective:/səbˈjektiv/ adj.
Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes or opinions.

Synonyms: personal

Objective: əbˈjektiv/ adj.
Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Synonyms: unbiased, impartial

The instant you require "visually pleasing" architecture, someone will come along and tell you that a shotgun shack is visually pleasing ... to that person. Someone else will tell you a single-family home modeled after an Arabian temple is visually pleasing. And a third person will champion a McMansion as visually pleasing.

Quote:
Please stay on topic for actual Urban Planning and not off topic negative sarcasm.
It's hard to stay on topic when the topic cannot easily be defined. If you can't define the terms, your document is a failure because it can be misinterpreted. Ten people can -- and will -- define "visually pleasing" 10 different ways.

That is the point.

Last edited by Ohiogirl81; 03-13-2013 at 12:43 PM..
 
Old 03-13-2013, 12:57 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,857,539 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I'm not surprised you missed the point ...

which is ...

the words you're using are wildly subjective and cannot be used in a planning document.

Subjective:/səbˈjektiv/ adj.
Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes or opinions.

Synonyms: personal

Objective: əbˈjektiv/ adj.
Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Synonyms: unbiased, impartial

The instant you require "visually pleasing" architecture, someone will come along and tell you that a shotgun shack is visually pleasing ... to that person. Someone else will tell you a single-family home modeled after an Arabian temple is visually pleasing. And a third person will champion a McMansion as visually pleasing.

It's hard to stay on topic when the topic cannot easily be defined. If you can't define the terms, your document is a failure because it can be misinterpreted. Ten people can -- and will -- define "visually pleasing" 10 different ways.

That is the point.
That is not the situation. You are bringing this off topic and not focusing on actual content related to Urban Planning. This is certainly not about defining every word someone writes or making generalizations about someone.

The standards of Urban Planning are both objective and subjective opinions simultaneously.

The topic is appropriate, well defined, and very useful for an Urban Planning forum. The original post, list of standards, document is a success.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 01:02 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
Please stay on topic for actual Urban Planning and not off topic negative sarcasm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
That is not the situation. You are bringing this off topic and not focusing on actual content related to Urban Planning. This is certainly not about defining every word someone writes or making generalizations about someone.

The standards of Urban Planning are both objective and subjective opinions simultaneously.

The topic is appropriate, well defined, and very useful for an Urban Planning forum. The original post, list of standards, document is a success.
Who quit and made you mod?
 
Old 03-13-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,401 posts, read 59,899,964 times
Reputation: 54046
I'm not surprised you missed the point again ... but whatever.

Define "visually pleasing" for me, and I'll play your game.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,074 posts, read 16,105,531 times
Reputation: 12647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
What are all of the other Specific Standards to be included that is also important? All of your Views for this.


Here is what I View To Be Most of The Best Standards for Urban Planning:

1. Focus on Urban Design, Aesthetics and Pleasant Inviting Presentation.

2. Relatively Simple Direct Management, a Lack of Too Much Bureaucracy Systems Getting in The Way.
Minimizing those obstacles that can prevent progress.

3. Have the Economy Support all Types of Architecture/Urban Planning Projects and for some Stores/Businesses and not discouraging them.

4. Have a lot of Investment to Cities/Towns of All Sizes and Not Just the Big Cities.

5. Good Zoning, Land Use, and Mixed Use Planning Laws Being Implemented at a Frequent Amount.

6. The Best Architecture Being Created That Has Plenty of Character and Visually Pleasant. Most of the time Avoid Objectively ugly Architecture. Also Preserve Well any of the Best Architecture That Exists Already from the Past.

7. Offer a Large Exciting Variety of Entertainment Options For the People That Live In Those Cities/Towns and That Includes High Quality Commercial Establishments Stores/Businesses and Cultural Events.

8. Find a Balance for Independent Stores vs. Chain Stores, and Maybe Prevent Some Chain Stores from Being Built.

9. Residential Development That Benefits The People That Are Going To Live There and Giving Them a Comfortable Relaxing Home For Initial Infrastructure/Design/Maintenance.

10. Encourage Some Forms of Evenly Distributed, Effective, User Friendly Public Transportation.

11. Schools, Healthcare, and Other Related Services Not Being Forgotten and Being Integrated in Some Neighborhoods.

12. Bring a lot of Revitalization and Urban Renewal to bad Neighborhoods and For not so good/mediocre Neighborhoods. Try to Have As Many High Quality, Healthy, Vibrant Neighborhoods As Possible.

13. Minimize Corruption In People’s Surroundings And Maximize Healthy, Positive, Refined, Almost Utopian Like Impressions to Society for Everything Urban Planning Can Promote.

14. Remember Relatively Well Most Standards That Have to be Integrated And Come Together for Successful Urban Planning All Over The World.



I am sure there is more than 14 standards, so I would like to see more specific standards/indicators/factors/qualities/categories/character traits being said. Also, what are your opinions for the Urban Planning standards I said up to now?
So your Best Standards of Urban Planning is to be a Hypocrite?

3. Have the Economy Support all Types of Architecture/Urban Planning Projects and for some Stores/Businesses and not discouraging them.
Prevent Some Chain Stores from Being Built.

Relatively Simple Direct Management, a Lack of Too Much Bureaucracy Systems Getting in The Way.
Minimizing those obstacles that can prevent progress.
vs.
The Best Architecture Being Created That Has Plenty of Character and Visually Pleasant. Most of the time Avoid Objectively ugly Architecture. Also Preserve Well any of the Best Architecture That Exists Already from the Past.
and
Good Zoning, Land Use, and Mixed Use Planning Laws Being Implemented at a Frequent Amount.
and
Bring a lot of Revitalization and Urban Renewal to bad Neighborhoods and For not so good/mediocre Neighborhoods.

Sounds more like you want very heavy handed, extensive bureaucracy.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 02:14 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,857,539 times
Reputation: 3064
Here is a brief summary related to this entire topic:

“The simple purpose and worth of this topic was to first write a list of 14 high quality standards related to urban planning, for other people to say more standards in brief list format, and more positive optimism and not too much negative pessimism. After that, further explanation for each of those standards and characteristics.

The standards of Urban Planning are both objective and subjective opinions simultaneously.”
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