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Old 03-15-2013, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,590,906 times
Reputation: 10299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
How can anyone possibly see this being generic when it is the complete opposite?

The topic and first post was very original, authentic, impressive, exciting, well organized, and intriguing. That also shows an accurate reality for what is essential in urban planning for cities/towns all over the world.
No it wasn't.

All 14 of those points can be found in one way or form in a city's General Plan (at least in California). There's a reason why it is called a General Plan. It is not specific - the details of execution are subject to interpretation. Hence, post #26. You need to be more specific because it is in the details where the real arguments await.

[for example, how to you want to Focus on Urban Design, Aesthetics and Pleasant Inviting Presentation?]

 
Old 03-15-2013, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,593 posts, read 6,391,992 times
Reputation: 2388
I think the OP was specific enough, though his points are more like "goals" than actual "standards". This sort of topic is so big and broad that it doesn't lend itself to being drawn into the weeds, but the critical thing to remember is that a goal is the end you want to achieve, and the standard is the means you use to get there. For instance, the bit about pleasing aesthetics. I would argue there is a substantive difference between an urban planner who adopts pleasing aesthetics as a goal and one who does not (the "ends"). The actual standard would answer the question of what exactly constitutes pleasing aesthetics (the "means").

For instance, the urban planner who does not value aesthetics will work under some other goal when planning the look of his city (such as raw functionality). The urban planner who wants good aesthetics will need to set standards of what differentiates good aesthetics from bad aesthetics. Depending on the person, good aesthetics could mean Art Deco skyscrapers, modern glass boxes, concrete blocks, or even a spread-out low-density forest city.

As for the bureaucracy, I think what the OP is trying to get across is "simplicity" - how efficiently and simply it handles its task, rather than the size of its task. A good analogy would be the difference between having to submit a 50-page application that is reviewed by 6 agencies, and having to submit a 2-page application that is reviewed by 1 agency.
 
Old 03-15-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,051 posts, read 102,757,343 times
Reputation: 33099
^^Oh, come on! Several of us posted a list of words that need to be defined before this can go anywhere.
 
Old 03-16-2013, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,590,906 times
Reputation: 10299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
I think the OP was specific enough, though his points are more like "goals" than actual "standards". This sort of topic is so big and broad that it doesn't lend itself to being drawn into the weeds, but the critical thing to remember is that a goal is the end you want to achieve, and the standard is the means you use to get there. For instance, the bit about pleasing aesthetics. I would argue there is a substantive difference between an urban planner who adopts pleasing aesthetics as a goal and one who does not (the "ends"). The actual standard would answer the question of what exactly constitutes pleasing aesthetics (the "means").

For instance, the urban planner who does not value aesthetics will work under some other goal when planning the look of his city (such as raw functionality). The urban planner who wants good aesthetics will need to set standards of what differentiates good aesthetics from bad aesthetics. Depending on the person, good aesthetics could mean Art Deco skyscrapers, modern glass boxes, concrete blocks, or even a spread-out low-density forest city.

As for the bureaucracy, I think what the OP is trying to get across is "simplicity" - how efficiently and simply it handles its task, rather than the size of its task. A good analogy would be the difference between having to submit a 50-page application that is reviewed by 6 agencies, and having to submit a 2-page application that is reviewed by 1 agency.
The title of his thread is "What I Believe Are The Best Standards for Urban Planning in Cities/Towns."

I await his answers.

[as for your last paragraph, if we could make it that simple WE WOULD!]
 
Old 03-16-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,901,256 times
Reputation: 4691
Verbose Writing =/= Quality Writing
 
Old 03-16-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,051 posts, read 102,757,343 times
Reputation: 33099
^^Exactly! Especially when the writer indulges in self-aggrandizement, e.g. "these are perfect".
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:44 AM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,867,448 times
Reputation: 3069
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi View Post
How did you get to be this way thepast? Tone down the confidence a notch or two. Didn't a loved one ever give it to you straight when you were growing up, or were you always getting a gold star for nothing? lol You will never make it out in the world with that attitude.
What you said there doesnít make any sense and is so delusional. How dare you have the audacity to be so rude to someone you donít even know and saying such false accusations?

I recently got a gold star for usually being one of the best, most informative posters on this website.

I am proud of who I am and I am successful for plenty of parts in my life, and knowing what to get from the world.

You are just jealous Hifi, and you are just a cynical idiot that was so unbelievably rude to someone to the extent where I just had to say this and had no other choice because I couldnít see such a false, delusional, insulting post directed towards me.
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:45 AM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,867,448 times
Reputation: 3069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
It's not my faultt when words are mizused to the point where multiple contraadictions appears in each sentences.

This bearz repeating: There is no such thing as an objective opinion. Opinions are, by definition, subjective.

Once that issue is solved, and some tense usage and awkward sentence construction is corrected, the document just may improve by leaps and bounds. Good luck with that.
What you are saying is just lies and false accusations.

I guess some people are just not able to read well said, high quality, intriguing writing and just don’t have the intellectual abilities to understand.

Why are you not able to simply realize opinions are both objective universal standards and subjective individual preference simultaneously? The “document” and original post is a success before I saw some off topic, ignorant, delusional responses, and this should go back on topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I postid a list of words that needzs to be defined before this can go anywheree.
You are supposed to know the definition of those words, so you desperately asking this silly question is bringing this so off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Verbose Writing =/= Quality Writing
My writing= Quality Writing.
That post you said = False Accusation.
Overly vague sentences that are negative and don’t contribute anything to a topic does not equal =/= Quality Writing.
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:57 AM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,867,448 times
Reputation: 3069
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
The title of his thread is "What I Believe Are The Best Standards for Urban Planning in Cities/Towns."

I await his answers.

[as for your last paragraph, if we could make it that simple WE WOULD!]
Chill out and relax people, this was a topic where I had just 20 minutes to write the first post for 14 brief standards of Urban Planning in brief list format, and this was a valuable, exciting, innovative topic to create and focus on.

Some people are not able to even come up with actual important qualities to focus on for urban planning

Please no more wasteful, delusional, false accusations negativity. I want this to stay on topic, and be more optimistic, polite, and respectful.
 
Old 03-17-2013, 11:35 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,901,256 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
My writing= Quality Writing.
That post you said = False Accusation.
Overly vague sentences that are negative and don’t contribute anything to a topic does not equal =/= Quality Writing.
Your original post = awful writing. I haven't seen anything else you've written, but if it resembles that dreck, you're not a good writer. Sorry.

My post = an opinion most everyone else agrees with. I'm generally not mean for the sake of being mean, but I really can't resist when you're being such a pompous ass

Brief statements that are to the point = effective writing; there's nothing vague about it. I write a novel when a novel needs to be written (in fact, I'm in the process of doing so as we speak). If you actually want to become a good writer, and no, I don't mean a long-winded, plagiarizing egotist who pats himself on the back for knowing how to use a thesaurus, you need to (1) be an avid reader; (2) take writing seminars (whether graded or non-graded) that have you practice a wide variety of styles and offer a workshop component (that's the most important part of all); (3) practice, practice, practice; and (4) be patient. Writing has been a passion of mine for the past six years, and I would say I've gotten to the point where I'm good--not amazing, not breathtaking, not the voice of a generation, or whatever ridiculous set of adjectives you use to describe yourself, but merely good. Of course, one doesn't even need to be good to create a bestseller (not to pick on Stephenie Meyer, I'm sure she's a nice person in real life), but there is a minimum threshold that must be exceeded if you want to create something that has the potential to both be potentially publishable and critically respected.
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