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Old 02-19-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,879,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Yes. For a short time there was a law that banned any funds from going towards subway expansion in LA due to methane levels in the ground on the Westside. After it was discovered these concerns could be mitigated, the ban was reversed and that is why the Westside extension is happening.



I've never heard of this.
You have now.

Metro Orange Line to Undergo Pavement Repairs Beginning Tuesday, Dec. 12

If I was designing a busway like that, I use nothing less then 12-inch thick concrete.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,465,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Yes. For a short time there was a law that banned any funds from going towards subway expansion in LA due to methane levels in the ground on the Westside. After it was discovered these concerns could be mitigated, the ban was reversed and that is why the Westside extension is happening.
So let me get this straight. Suburban communities in the San Fernando Valley would rather have a subway line going through their neighborhoods than a light rail line?

Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 02-19-2013 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,110,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
So let me get this straight. Suburban communities in the San Fernando Valley would rather have a subway line going through there neighborhoods than a light rail line?
Yep.

I can't tell you their exact reasons as I was not living here at the time. But going off of the similar opposition in West LA towards the Expo Line Phase II (that is getting shut down hard by the court system, not gonna fall for that BS twice) they are concerned about the tracks being dangerous for people to cross, the effects of surface-construction and honestly I think a lot of it was their fear of traffic effects.

Yet now all many of them can do is complain about how they got shafted by Metro (maybe these are new Valley residents).
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:18 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,581,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I don't know. I'd take it from my home in Stapleton to my job in the tech center if the 225 and DIA lines were complete. It's a miserable commute and I hate driving. I don't think they'll be tearing out LR lines in 50 years. By then, there will be more density within the metro area. Much of the TOD is just getting started, so I think it's hard to judge Denver's enitire system until it's completely built out and development around all the stations is more mature. But what's the other option? Just let the freeways get to be as bad as LA? I lived in the LA area for 10 years and it's to the point where you feel trapped. You can't get anywhere with all the traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Maybe I'm different, but I actually dislike/hate driving my car most of the time. I'd rather have the majority of what I need (bank/grocery store/gym, etc.) within walking distance of my home and take public transit for further needs, like work. I enjoy driving if I have the road to myself, but that's not reality. And Denver seems to do a poor job with freeway construction. I can't believe how many freeways only have 2 or 3 lanes in each direction, causing unnecessary congestion. They should have added 2 lanes in each direction to the 225 while they were going to all the trouble.
I don't think they'll be tearing out any LR lines, either. That was not my prediction. I do think the urban planners of 50 years from now will probably be saying "what were they thinking?", though. Light rail lines all over the place. (I'm not just talking about Denver, mind you.)

If you've been following this thread, or even the news in Denver, you know the NW corridor is not expected to be completed until 2044, IF THEN, so it's going to take a long time for this system to mature. I'm not so sure density is going to increase that much. For one thing, the Denver burbs are built pretty densely now, compared to many other cities. nei posted some information about that on another thread recently. Among the cities he cited, Denver has the smallest lot sizes, something those of us who live here already knew, but some on this forum did not want to believe. For another thing, the birth rate is dropping, seriously, just like it has done in much of Europe and Japan.

No, of course, no one wants to see metro Denver turned into another LA, but I can tell you, people have been saying that since we moved here 33 years ago.

I'm great with walking. I'd like to see more stuff within walking distance of my house. But walking is also a form of personal transportation. Public transit for work is nice for people who have day jobs that have regular hours. It's not for everyone.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:27 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
But there will always be people who can't or wont drive. The transportation needs of those people will need to be meet.

There are also other challenges to be meet. Like the fact that we will be running out of oil within the next 30 - 40 years. Will alternatives be ready in time? If not, public transit is going necessary.

Also congestion, with the ever increasing population. Where are all those private automobiles going to fit? Two light rail tracks carry as many people as an eight lane wide freeway.
There is no question that there will always be people who can't or won't drive. There are transportation alternatives available now for such folks. It doesn't have to be light rail.

I have heard this "running out of oil" prediction for many a decade. (One of the advantages to being old, LOL!) Are you a follower of Al Bartlett, by any chance? He was predicting years ago that all the easily recovered oil had already been discovered, gas prices would go through the stratosphere, yada, yada, yada. New oil fields have been discovered since he first made these predictions, and technology has improved as well, making the oil not as expensive to recover as earlier predicted.

The ever increasing population has also not outstripped the ability of society to accommodate additional people. People have been predicting that population growth will outstrip the ability of agriculture to feed them, etc, at least since Malthus. The fertility rate in the US is at rock bottom. This includes all women in the US, not just white, middle to upper class women.

Professor Emeritus Al Bartlett - Physics at University of Colorado at Boulder - articles on exponential growth, peak oil and population growth, sustainability, renewable resources and the environment
U.S. Fertility Rates Fall To All-Time Low : Shots - Health News : NPR
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:53 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,959,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't think they'll be tearing out any LR lines, either. That was not my prediction. I do think the urban planners of 50 years from now will probably be saying "what were they thinking?", though. Light rail lines all over the place.
Most of the extra cost of light rail is in construction, not operation. Fifty years later, complaints about overspending on light rail from a long time ago would probably not be thought of all that much in comparison to other spending.

Quote:
If you've been following this thread, or even the news in Denver, you know the NW corridor is not expected to be completed until 2044, IF THEN, so it's going to take a long time for this system to mature. I'm not so sure density is going to increase that much. For one thing, the Denver burbs are built pretty densely now, compared to many other cities. nei posted some information about that on another thread recently. Among the cities he cited, Denver has the smallest lot sizes
The lot sizes are applicable only to single family (detached?) homes; much higher densities are possible. It's possible (whether the locals, want to is another issue) to densify corridors along the light rail, even with the system currently existing. While the NW corridor may never got built, there are a number of others that probably will.

Vancouver seems to use its new rail system to concentrate new development and has seen a rather sharp rise in transit use.

Quote:
For another thing, the birth rate is dropping, seriously, just like it has done in much of Europe and Japan.
Currently, most population growth is from immigration though that may slow down.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:58 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,581,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Most of the extra cost of light rail is in construction, not operation. Fifty years later, complaints about overspending on light rail from a long time ago would probably not be thought of all that much in comparison to other spending.



The lot sizes are applicable only to single family (detached?) homes; much higher densities are possible. It's possible (whether the locals, want to is another issue) to densify corridors along the light rail, even with the system currently existing. While the NW corridor may never got built, there are a number of others that probably will.

Vancouver seems to use its new rail system to concentrate new development and has seen a rather sharp rise in transit use.



Currently, most population growth is from immigration though that may slow down.
Immigration has slowed down since the recession. Whether it will pick up when the recession is over (if that ever happens) is unknown. I think Mexico was looking at ways to slow emigration out of Mexico before the recession took care of it for them.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:12 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,959,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Immigration has slowed down since the recession. Whether it will pick up when the recession is over (if that ever happens) is unknown. I think Mexico was looking at ways to slow emigration out of Mexico before the recession took care of it for them.
The Mexican birth rate has lowered drastically, which be in a factor in preventing it from picking it up again:

Mexico's population: When the niños run out | The Economist

There are other large sources of immigration, in the Northeast it seems like Mexicans are a relatively small percentage of the immigrant population, though it seems like that's not true of the rest of the country.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
...the NW corridor is not expected to be completed until 2044, IF THEN, so it's going to take a long time for this system to mature. I'm not so sure density is going to increase that much. For one thing, the Denver burbs are built pretty densely now, compared to many other cities.
One big difference between the US and China/Hong Kong is how quickly things happen here.

I suppose we are blessed by not having various populations of Spotted Owls that need saving (haha)
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:08 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,922,814 times
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I think l;ight rail makes perfect sense where need because of lack of parkig in high property districts. It of course should be locally funded and at elast near repaid by users, I mean i know private parkigcost alot in mnay urban areas and that the polutio caused by concentratio living can be bad. mnay in urban areas see it has savbing mouch of their inductry has it allows comnies to transprot workers form where theylive into inner city.Othyer tha that most likely the compnaies will continue to move to where wrokers are i mnay cases.
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