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Old 02-18-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Upgrading to LRT will be hard to justify, as there's already a transit line that provides almost as much service already existing. More worthwhile to build a new light rail in some other underserved corridor.
I'm with you on that. I even would rather see a full network of BRT running on the old streetcar ROWs in the Valley before a single BRT line is upgraded to LRT.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:41 PM
 
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Everyone seems to have forgotten about this people mover in suburban Detroit. No longer around, but seemed like a good idea at the time.Popular Science - Google Books
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Some of these will fail... since they do not have the right density.

Light rail doesn't work when it goes from nowhere to nowhere, with mostly nowhere in between
Changing the zoning around these light rail stops would encourage developers to build around these train stops, providing the Nimby's don't come out in force, with AK-47's, to shoot down their proposals.

I've taken 2 trips to L.A. the past month, specifically to ride their rail lines, and have ridden every mile of them now. I queried as to why there's so little development along the Blue Line from L.A. to Long Beach and the response I received was the areas around most of these stops are still zoned for single family homes!
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The Expo line is almost completely grade separated, making trains have more of an advantage. And it connect to already existing underground rail section downtown. An orange line LRT would still require a transfer to the red line to get Downtown (or Hollywood), and the ridership is probably too low to justify a red line extension.
Are you sure about that? Except for a couple of tunnels at one end and and a couple of overpasses at the other end, the Expo Line looks to me to be almost entirely at grade. The Orange Line looks more grade separated, then the Expo Line does.


Expo Line cab view 4/4/12 - YouTube


Orange Line Extension - Chatsworth to Canoga - YouTube
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Are you sure about that? Except for a couple of tunnels at one end and and a couple of overpasses at the other end, the Expo Line looks to me to be almost entirely at grade. The Orange Line looks more grade separated, then the Expo Line does.


Expo Line cab view 4/4/12 - YouTube


Orange Line Extension - Chatsworth to Canoga - YouTube
It's at-grade but on a separate ROW for much of the route. Doesn't have mixed lanes with car traffic though. Orange Line and Expo Line have around the same grade separation.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
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It needs to be recognized, first, that if you include both traditional "streetcars" and the interuban services of 1900-1950, Light Rail has been with us for a long time. Its resurgence over the past three decades can be linked to a convergence of several societal factors -- the recognition of a finite supply of pertoleum, the easing of the racial polarization which fueled suburban growth, and growth in both numbers and influence by several segments of the population for which the automobile is not a suitable option.

Nevertheless, I believe that the unquestioning embrace of Light Rail by a strongly outspoken advocacy at one end of the present political polariztion has led to the over-extension of some Light Rail systems -- Portland being the most prominent example.

The current practice of driving several hundred miles every week by wealthy ex-urbanites is likely to be increasingly punished at the gas pump, but I don't see this as the end of the auto-centric culture; autos will become smaller, more-confining and less-crashworthy, and the trade-off to nass transit will establish itself at a shorter distance.

But the private, individualized vehicle is here to stay at some point on the travel-options spectrum; nobody except the most militant of the eco-Fascists takes issue with that. We are likley due for a repeat of the previous 70-year cycle, hopefully with the swings in public opinion less drastic, and more infrastucture preserved this time around.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,523,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
But the private, individualized vehicle is here to stay at some point on the travel-options spectrum; nobody except the most militant of the eco-Fascists takes issue with that. We are likley due for a repeat of the previous 70-year cycle, hopefully with the swings in public opinion less drastic, and more infrastucture preserved this time around.
I think in most parts of the United State this would be true, but I think you're underestimating the potential for car sharing propgrams like Zipcar and Modo to replace car ownership for large percentages of urban populations, just because it makes alot of economic sense. These are becoming very popular in urban Western Canada, where I'm living, and I know many people who need occasional use of a car to supplement tranist and who've joined these programs instead of buying one. Perhaps as these trends progress, you'll see this becoming more and more common in American cities.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:14 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Seems like there are two general types of light rail street mixing designs:

1) Grade separated running underground in the city center, usually running in the street median outside the city center. This is a most common format for older American systems. Boston's green lines, San Francisco's MUNI and many of Philadelphia's are good examples. Los Angeles seems to be doing this as well with the Downtown connector. A few, such as, D green line go above ground in the city center but remain grade separated, running on their own right of way corridor.

2) Running on the street in the city center, then running on it's right of way further out where space is available, maybe with a mix of some street running. This is common in the western US, and in many older US cities to save space and money.

(2) has its slowest, least reliable section in the highest volume section; (1) slowest, least reliable section in the lower ridership portions. (2) can make it difficult to conveniently got through downtown as Jarett Walker explains/ (2) is sometimes referred to as tram-trains in Europe, and some of the further out sections look more like lower capacity commuter rail that happens to be capable of running on the street or even just non-urban railroads like this German line:



File:Murgtalbahn Tennetschluchtbruecke Stadtbahn.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by nei; 02-19-2013 at 08:08 AM..
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,373,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Are you sure about that? Except for a couple of tunnels at one end and and a couple of overpasses at the other end, the Expo Line looks to me to be almost entirely at grade. The Orange Line looks more grade separated, then the Expo Line does.


Expo Line cab view 4/4/12 - YouTube
Is it always this slow?
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,778 posts, read 9,892,768 times
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Rail is the last thing you want, if you want convenience.
But it is the first thing you want, if you want frugality, longevity, energy efficiency, minimal loss of surface area, comfort and scalability.
Until an engineering breakthrough occurs, steel wheel on steel rail is the "best" form of land transportation.
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